If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. |
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#11
|
|||
|
|||
Backlit panel
cavelamb wrote:
Dan wrote: cavelamb wrote: Dan wrote: cavelamb wrote: Dan wrote: cavelamb wrote: I remember Linda Rice's Lockheed had a really cool backlit panel overlay. The panel itself was heavy aluminum sheet, but then they added a plastic overlay that had an opaque cover. Legends and labeling was done by engraving the opaque layer. On the back side of the there were little cavities carved for grain of rice (well duh!) light bulbs. The effect was quite stunning. So does anybody know where to find this kind of plastic for the overlay? Thanks, Richard I use white plexiglass. Paint the face and edges black and have it engraved or engrave it then use a roller to paint the face and sides. Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired Ok, so other than good intentions and great karma, what kept the paint out of the lettering? If you paint it before engraving you won't have that problem. Using a roller to paint after you engrave means very little, if any paint gets into the lettering. I used a rubber roller like engravers use. I prefer the paint first method, but sometimes you need to repaint after adding engraving or damaged paint. I might mention painting the back of the plastic prevents light leaks. For the truly patient/crazy you can route grooves in the back for wiring. The number of lights required depends on the size of the panel and embedded wiring means you only have 2 wires hanging out the back. Military/commercial lighted panels have a little coaxial connector on the back that presses into a socket when you mount the panel. If you ever see one of this type of panel you'll notice a little plus sign on the front. The connector is directly behind it. Should lighting fail you can press there to see if the connection is bad. Older panels had light assemblies that screwed through the panel from the front. Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired Thanks, Dan. That's a possibility. The comm shops in USAF units was authorized an engraver for intercom boxes face plates since the boxes had a bunch of pull-on volume controls and had to be re-labeled for the specific location on the aircraft or specific aircraft. Guess what? They just swapped out face plates when replacing the boxes. Another option you might try is the black on white plastic trophy/engraving shops use for name plates. Granted it's thinner than the plates we used which were 3/8" thick or so. I suppose an annunciator light or illuminated tail number plate can be made if you make a bezel to hold it with the lamps behind. You might also consider LED instead of incandescent. Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired Yeah, I remember fondly the side panels with all the cool military toys. Boy, those were the days. LED already considered. And approved, of course! One design flaw so far is isolating some areas so that annunciators don't bleed over into the rest of the panel. I think that problem can be addressed by milling out the back plastic but leaving an overlay but obviously won't work with a painted panel. That's kinda why I was thinking of a thin plastic overlay. The back-light panel can then be pieced together as needed but still present a smooth unbroken surface. I'm guessing something .008 to .016 thick(?) for readability of the engraved parts. With contrast the thickness is irrelevant in daylight. Think of name tags and placards you have seen engraved on plastic. The clarity of the engraving at night is more a function of line width and lettering size. As far as annunciators I have taken aluminum, bakelite and plastic blocks roughly 1/4" thicker than is needed for whatever lamp or LED requires. Picture a square or rectangle a little bigger than the annunciator with the center milled out to just under the size of the legend. This allows the light to illuminate the back of the legend. I then rabbit out inside a little deeper than the thickness of the legend which can be glued in place. You can also make a block of annunciators by this method using a bigger block of plastic with several holes milled out. For caution lights I have used red or orange plexiglass. I have the legend engraved then paint in the letters in black. This is easier than it sounds. I use model airplane paint, paint in the letters then carefully wipe the excess off the face. For best results I use a thin sheet of translucent plastic behind the legend. For the life of me I can't recall what the plastic sheet is called, but I have bought it in craft and office supply stores. I have found the local glass supply here will only order coloured plexiglass in full 4 x 8 foot sheets so I buy smaller sizes from e-bay. Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired |
#12
|
|||
|
|||
Backlit panel
cavelamb wrote:
Dan wrote: Orval Fairbairn wrote: In article , cavelamb wrote: I remember Linda Rice's Lockheed had a really cool backlit panel overlay. The panel itself was heavy aluminum sheet, but then they added a plastic overlay that had an opaque cover. Legends and labeling was done by engraving the opaque layer. On the back side of the there were little cavities carved for grain of rice (well duh!) light bulbs. The effect was quite stunning. So does anybody know where to find this kind of plastic for the overlay? Thanks, Richard If you wish to be more up-to-date, use red LEDs instead of the grain-of-wheat bulbs. You CAN use clear plexiglass, with an inverted bevel at the instrument holes. I would suggest painting both sides of the plexiglass white, to contain the light, before the cutting/engraving operations. The front face can be left whit or painted in your desired color. White plexiglass diffuses and spreads the light more evenly than clear. One nice thing about LED illumination is you can install both red and white LED so you can either make illumination switchable or you can change you mind later with minimum wiring problems. For the truly creative use blue-green LED so you can play special ops with NVG. Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired Kool! LOL. But the red/white back-light idea already crossed my mind. I hadn't thought of the special ops angle tho. I spent 14 years in special ops. When everything started going NVG compatible things got strange. Interiors were painted flat black and lighting included blue-green flood lamps, C-4 lights and stuff like that there. Some of the assorted lamps in earlier tests were so bright in NVG the area around them would be washed out and unreadable. As for flat black interiors let me tell you sitting in the sun in Florida things got HOT. Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired |
#13
|
|||
|
|||
Backlit panel
Dan wrote:
cavelamb wrote: Dan wrote: Orval Fairbairn wrote: In article , cavelamb wrote: I remember Linda Rice's Lockheed had a really cool backlit panel overlay. The panel itself was heavy aluminum sheet, but then they added a plastic overlay that had an opaque cover. Legends and labeling was done by engraving the opaque layer. On the back side of the there were little cavities carved for grain of rice (well duh!) light bulbs. The effect was quite stunning. So does anybody know where to find this kind of plastic for the overlay? Thanks, Richard If you wish to be more up-to-date, use red LEDs instead of the grain-of-wheat bulbs. You CAN use clear plexiglass, with an inverted bevel at the instrument holes. I would suggest painting both sides of the plexiglass white, to contain the light, before the cutting/engraving operations. The front face can be left whit or painted in your desired color. White plexiglass diffuses and spreads the light more evenly than clear. One nice thing about LED illumination is you can install both red and white LED so you can either make illumination switchable or you can change you mind later with minimum wiring problems. For the truly creative use blue-green LED so you can play special ops with NVG. Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired Kool! LOL. But the red/white back-light idea already crossed my mind. I hadn't thought of the special ops angle tho. I spent 14 years in special ops. When everything started going NVG compatible things got strange. Interiors were painted flat black and lighting included blue-green flood lamps, C-4 lights and stuff like that there. Some of the assorted lamps in earlier tests were so bright in NVG the area around them would be washed out and unreadable. As for flat black interiors let me tell you sitting in the sun in Florida things got HOT. Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired Well, don gone it, you are supposed to be sitting there at night! Hiding in flat black in daytime seems a little strange... Richard |
#14
|
|||
|
|||
Backlit panel
cavelamb wrote:
Dan wrote: cavelamb wrote: Dan wrote: Orval Fairbairn wrote: In article , cavelamb wrote: I remember Linda Rice's Lockheed had a really cool backlit panel overlay. The panel itself was heavy aluminum sheet, but then they added a plastic overlay that had an opaque cover. Legends and labeling was done by engraving the opaque layer. On the back side of the there were little cavities carved for grain of rice (well duh!) light bulbs. The effect was quite stunning. So does anybody know where to find this kind of plastic for the overlay? Thanks, Richard If you wish to be more up-to-date, use red LEDs instead of the grain-of-wheat bulbs. You CAN use clear plexiglass, with an inverted bevel at the instrument holes. I would suggest painting both sides of the plexiglass white, to contain the light, before the cutting/engraving operations. The front face can be left whit or painted in your desired color. White plexiglass diffuses and spreads the light more evenly than clear. One nice thing about LED illumination is you can install both red and white LED so you can either make illumination switchable or you can change you mind later with minimum wiring problems. For the truly creative use blue-green LED so you can play special ops with NVG. Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired Kool! LOL. But the red/white back-light idea already crossed my mind. I hadn't thought of the special ops angle tho. I spent 14 years in special ops. When everything started going NVG compatible things got strange. Interiors were painted flat black and lighting included blue-green flood lamps, C-4 lights and stuff like that there. Some of the assorted lamps in earlier tests were so bright in NVG the area around them would be washed out and unreadable. As for flat black interiors let me tell you sitting in the sun in Florida things got HOT. Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired Well, don gone it, you are supposed to be sitting there at night! Hiding in flat black in daytime seems a little strange... Richard They flew at night and got repaired during daytime. They also flew day missions. Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired |
#15
|
|||
|
|||
Backlit panel
"Orval Fairbairn" wrote in message news_r_fairbairn- If you wish to be more up-to-date, use red LEDs instead of the grain-of-wheat bulbs. You CAN use clear plexiglass, with an inverted bevel at the instrument holes. I would suggest painting both sides of the plexiglass white, to contain the light, before the cutting/engraving operations. The front face can be left whit or painted in your desired color. -- Orval is on the right track. But for best results, use clear plexiglas, coat both sides of it white for better internal light transmission. Then, coat both sides of it black, to stop extraneous light. Bevel or reverse-bevel the edges,, depending on the effect yu require/desire. Engrave through the top black /white layer into clear plexi. You CAN use white plexi for this, but you will rquire so much more light (numbers of lights, at many places) to achieve the illumination and readability at night that you desire, as most white plexi absorbs a great deal of the light - it just isn't as translucent as it seems, especially being edge-lighted.. As for the "name-tag" material, the white inside in MOST oif that stuff is opaque, and it is of such differing quality and material from various manufacturers as to be a literal crap-shoot. Flash |
#16
|
|||
|
|||
Backlit panel
Flash wrote:
"Orval Fairbairn" wrote in message news_r_fairbairn- If you wish to be more up-to-date, use red LEDs instead of the grain-of-wheat bulbs. You CAN use clear plexiglass, with an inverted bevel at the instrument holes. I would suggest painting both sides of the plexiglass white, to contain the light, before the cutting/engraving operations. The front face can be left whit or painted in your desired color. -- Orval is on the right track. But for best results, use clear plexiglas, coat both sides of it white for better internal light transmission. Then, coat both sides of it black, to stop extraneous light. Bevel or reverse-bevel the edges,, depending on the effect yu require/desire. Engrave through the top black /white layer into clear plexi. You CAN use white plexi for this, but you will rquire so much more light (numbers of lights, at many places) to achieve the illumination and readability at night that you desire, as most white plexi absorbs a great deal of the light - it just isn't as translucent as it seems, especially being edge-lighted.. As for the "name-tag" material, the white inside in MOST oif that stuff is opaque, and it is of such differing quality and material from various manufacturers as to be a literal crap-shoot. Flash Maybe I have just had good luck with "name tag" material. As for white plexiglass I never suggested opaque white although there are varying degrees of translucence. Bear in mind any engraved plate used for switches or similar don't have to be all that bright. It's all relative to ambient lighting. An exception might be a panel that is normally in shadow in daylight ops. As for engraved plates there is one more idea. It's something I have never tried myself. I have disassembled internally illuminated military engine and pressure indicators. Many of them had 2 or more 328 sized lamps. The one inch round gauges had 2 lamps and the 2 inch round engine/fuel etc had 2 or 3. What they had in common was a disc thick enough to accept the lamp, the proper number of holes equally spaced ina circle and a centre hole for the pointer shaft. The instrument face was constructed one of two ways; either the face was silk screened directly onto the aforementioned disc or another, thinner disc. The round indicator bodies are brass so if you want to see what I mean see if you can find an inoperative one on which to perform an autopsy. I used to get the 1 inch ones with burned out bulbs, but working movements, just for the synchro inside. Your suggestion for using clear plexiglass might work with silk screened faces. I have never tried it since the plates I have made were all one offs or so. I have never used plexiglass instrument illumination so I have nothing to say in the matter. A habit I picked up in the military is a preference for internally illuminated indicators when possible. The major drawback to that is the connectors for military instruments such as clocks, g-meters and pitot-static instruments costs around $80. I suggest anyone wanting to try anything along these lines should obtain various plastics in various colours and thicknesses and haul off and experiment. Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired |
#17
|
|||
|
|||
Backlit panel
Dan wrote:
Flash wrote: "Orval Fairbairn" wrote in message news_r_fairbairn- If you wish to be more up-to-date, use red LEDs instead of the grain-of-wheat bulbs. You CAN use clear plexiglass, with an inverted bevel at the instrument holes. I would suggest painting both sides of the plexiglass white, to contain the light, before the cutting/engraving operations. The front face can be left whit or painted in your desired color. -- Orval is on the right track. But for best results, use clear plexiglas, coat both sides of it white for better internal light transmission. Then, coat both sides of it black, to stop extraneous light. Bevel or reverse-bevel the edges,, depending on the effect yu require/desire. Engrave through the top black /white layer into clear plexi. You CAN use white plexi for this, but you will rquire so much more light (numbers of lights, at many places) to achieve the illumination and readability at night that you desire, as most white plexi absorbs a great deal of the light - it just isn't as translucent as it seems, especially being edge-lighted.. As for the "name-tag" material, the white inside in MOST oif that stuff is opaque, and it is of such differing quality and material from various manufacturers as to be a literal crap-shoot. Flash Maybe I have just had good luck with "name tag" material. As for white plexiglass I never suggested opaque white although there are varying degrees of translucence. Bear in mind any engraved plate used for switches or similar don't have to be all that bright. It's all relative to ambient lighting. An exception might be a panel that is normally in shadow in daylight ops. As for engraved plates there is one more idea. It's something I have never tried myself. I have disassembled internally illuminated military engine and pressure indicators. Many of them had 2 or more 328 sized lamps. The one inch round gauges had 2 lamps and the 2 inch round engine/fuel etc had 2 or 3. What they had in common was a disc thick enough to accept the lamp, the proper number of holes equally spaced ina circle and a centre hole for the pointer shaft. The instrument face was constructed one of two ways; either the face was silk screened directly onto the aforementioned disc or another, thinner disc. The round indicator bodies are brass so if you want to see what I mean see if you can find an inoperative one on which to perform an autopsy. I used to get the 1 inch ones with burned out bulbs, but working movements, just for the synchro inside. Your suggestion for using clear plexiglass might work with silk screened faces. I have never tried it since the plates I have made were all one offs or so. I have never used plexiglass instrument illumination so I have nothing to say in the matter. A habit I picked up in the military is a preference for internally illuminated indicators when possible. The major drawback to that is the connectors for military instruments such as clocks, g-meters and pitot-static instruments costs around $80. I suggest anyone wanting to try anything along these lines should obtain various plastics in various colours and thicknesses and haul off and experiment. Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired Well, for what it's worth, I bought the boat today, so this project is a go. I think the annunciator question resolved itself as being impractical as I had envisioned it. So it will probably just be a seperate panel with a stack of back-lit blocks placed through the panel. As for the rest; switch labels, panel legends, etc, I remember seeing some translucent white in the scrap box at the Plastic Shoppe. I'll get some small pieces and of that and some clear Lexan and start experimenting with them. Thanks, Richard |
#18
|
|||
|
|||
Backlit panel
cavelamb wrote:
Dan wrote: Flash wrote: "Orval Fairbairn" wrote in message news_r_fairbairn- If you wish to be more up-to-date, use red LEDs instead of the grain-of-wheat bulbs. You CAN use clear plexiglass, with an inverted bevel at the instrument holes. I would suggest painting both sides of the plexiglass white, to contain the light, before the cutting/engraving operations. The front face can be left whit or painted in your desired color. -- Orval is on the right track. But for best results, use clear plexiglas, coat both sides of it white for better internal light transmission. Then, coat both sides of it black, to stop extraneous light. Bevel or reverse-bevel the edges,, depending on the effect yu require/desire. Engrave through the top black /white layer into clear plexi. You CAN use white plexi for this, but you will rquire so much more light (numbers of lights, at many places) to achieve the illumination and readability at night that you desire, as most white plexi absorbs a great deal of the light - it just isn't as translucent as it seems, especially being edge-lighted.. As for the "name-tag" material, the white inside in MOST oif that stuff is opaque, and it is of such differing quality and material from various manufacturers as to be a literal crap-shoot. Flash Maybe I have just had good luck with "name tag" material. As for white plexiglass I never suggested opaque white although there are varying degrees of translucence. Bear in mind any engraved plate used for switches or similar don't have to be all that bright. It's all relative to ambient lighting. An exception might be a panel that is normally in shadow in daylight ops. As for engraved plates there is one more idea. It's something I have never tried myself. I have disassembled internally illuminated military engine and pressure indicators. Many of them had 2 or more 328 sized lamps. The one inch round gauges had 2 lamps and the 2 inch round engine/fuel etc had 2 or 3. What they had in common was a disc thick enough to accept the lamp, the proper number of holes equally spaced ina circle and a centre hole for the pointer shaft. The instrument face was constructed one of two ways; either the face was silk screened directly onto the aforementioned disc or another, thinner disc. The round indicator bodies are brass so if you want to see what I mean see if you can find an inoperative one on which to perform an autopsy. I used to get the 1 inch ones with burned out bulbs, but working movements, just for the synchro inside. Your suggestion for using clear plexiglass might work with silk screened faces. I have never tried it since the plates I have made were all one offs or so. I have never used plexiglass instrument illumination so I have nothing to say in the matter. A habit I picked up in the military is a preference for internally illuminated indicators when possible. The major drawback to that is the connectors for military instruments such as clocks, g-meters and pitot-static instruments costs around $80. I suggest anyone wanting to try anything along these lines should obtain various plastics in various colours and thicknesses and haul off and experiment. Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired Well, for what it's worth, I bought the boat today, so this project is a go. I think the annunciator question resolved itself as being impractical as I had envisioned it. So it will probably just be a seperate panel with a stack of back-lit blocks placed through the panel. As for the rest; switch labels, panel legends, etc, I remember seeing some translucent white in the scrap box at the Plastic Shoppe. I'll get some small pieces and of that and some clear Lexan and start experimenting with them. Thanks, Richard Good luck. Let us know what happens. Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired |
#19
|
|||
|
|||
Backlit panel
The lexan won't machine real well. Look for Plexiglas (acrylic) bits and sheet...
"cavelamb" wrote in message ... Well, for what it's worth, I bought the boat today, so this project is a go. I think the annunciator question resolved itself as being impractical as I had envisioned it. So it will probably just be a seperate panel with a stack of back-lit blocks placed through the panel. As for the rest; switch labels, panel legends, etc, I remember seeing some translucent white in the scrap box at the Plastic Shoppe. I'll get some small pieces and of that and some clear Lexan and start experimenting with them. Thanks, Richard |
#20
|
|||
|
|||
Backlit panel
Dan D wrote:
The lexan won't machine real well. Look for Plexiglas (acrylic) bits and sheet... "cavelamb" wrote in message ... Well, for what it's worth, I bought the boat today, so this project is a go. I think the annunciator question resolved itself as being impractical as I had envisioned it. So it will probably just be a seperate panel with a stack of back-lit blocks placed through the panel. As for the rest; switch labels, panel legends, etc, I remember seeing some translucent white in the scrap box at the Plastic Shoppe. I'll get some small pieces and of that and some clear Lexan and start experimenting with them. Thanks, Richard oops... Ok, thanks |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
20B Panel | jcarlyle | Soaring | 21 | April 1st 09 10:57 PM |
Panel Planner | [email protected] | Home Built | 6 | March 7th 06 11:48 PM |
IFR PANEL | Flyhighdave | Home Built | 4 | January 18th 05 04:24 AM |
IFR PANEL | Flyhighdave | Home Built | 4 | January 17th 05 07:15 PM |
182 panel | Jim | Owning | 2 | August 2nd 03 09:06 PM |