Update - Fat Albert

On 17 Oct 2005 10:21:28 -0700, "Denny" wrote:

Ummm, yup... Your local NAPA store has it on the shelf, it's called
engine dye... Got, it, put it in, fired up the UV light and discovered
everything on the engine glows in UV, especially gaskets... Then I
wandered over to the starboard engine and discovered that dip stick
glows also... Turns out theAv oil I'm using is fluorescent without the
dye... Back to square one...

When the oil fluoresces (sp?) without the dye you need to do a good
high-flash solvent wash job on the engine when it's hot, then grab a
fire extinguisher, drag the thing outside and dump a gallon of
anhydrous isopropyl into your solvent sprayer and repeat.

I'm sure I'm not telling you anything you don't know-but Apache cowls
SUCK r/r-wise. Mr. Burns just doesn't have enuff practice with his
Aztec cowls yet.

Had a 450 Pratt giving me fits year ago. Dug out the Zyglo light and
dumped in the dye.

Idle to operating oil temp (if the oil ain't hot, the oil in the tank
doesn't circulate), high power for 15 minutes, 5 minute cool down-no
joy-zip, zilch, nada. High power for 30 minutes, 5 minute cool
down-zip, zilch, nada. Grabbed a pilot that was handy (still have
never mastered a twin-engine w/conventional gear) went around the
patch ONCE.

Grabbed the light, stuck it in the cowl-the entire engine was glowing.
Don't remember what was found to be the culprit, but the dye sure
wasn't the answer on that one.

Only nagging leak that I ever found with dye was on a P-baron. Oil was
"going away", nothing evident but what looked like normal minor leaks.

Repeated the procedure listed above, found nothing. Let them fly it on
a trip, drug out the light found visible dye on the trailing edge of
the flap. Compressions were perfect. Hmm.

Yanked three jugs and had 'em re-worked w/new rings, oil consumption
cut by one half, yanked the other three, oil consumption back to
normal. The oil film on the flap was not visible with out the black
light. Would never had believed it was blowing by without the dye. Was
one of my first experiences with operation at altitude causing heavier
breathing out the breather.

Have found most of my nagging oil leaks by using solvent/alcohol spray
and generic aerosol foot powder. Just make sure you solvent spray the
foot powder off after you find the leak, for all I know the stuff is
corrosive.

BTW, just how old were those oil lines?

TC

On Mon, 17 Oct 2005 19:37:55 -0700, "Jim Burns"
wrote:

I'm sure I'm not telling you anything you don't know-but Apache cowls
SUCK r/r-wise. Mr. Burns just doesn't have enuff practice with his
Aztec cowls yet.

TC, are you telling me that the Apache cowls are worse than the Aztecs?
You're right, we don't have much practice with ours yet (knock on wood).
We've only had the bottoms off once so far, but it was quite and experience.
I know enough to be the "screw driver/feed it into place man" and not the
"flat on my back holding it up with two arms, one knee and the opposite
foot/can't do crap from down here man"! We weren't nearly as fast as
Denny, more like 40 minutes off and an hour on for EACH of them, but it was
our first time and we definitely learned how they fit up into the fairings!
sheesh!

Yes, they are worse.

Oldest Aztruck I ever worked on was late 60's, not entirely sure if it
is identical to yours.

Figured out a long time ago to inspect all nutplates-especially the
little #6 nutplates on the bottom cowl-EVERY TIME the cowls are off,
spray a dab of LPS2 (or equivalent) into 'em, plus use brand new
structural stainless screws (and a screwdriver that fits properly) to
put the inside-the-wheelwell crap back together. You are talking about
maybe two bucks worth of screws to save a crapload of aggravation.

Stick a body inboard and somebody outboard, feed the side channels
onto the stub mounting brackets sticking out of the firewall-making
sure that the bottom angles at the 'well are outside of the 'well tin.
Use a short tapered punch in the aft hole, stick a screw in the front
hole, snug it up, poke the screws into the aft holes-the cowl will
stay in place now while you line everything else up.

Grab a creeper, stick a screw into each "tail" sticking out aft on the
bottom, work your way up the sides of the firewall-using your foot to
apply a mild correction as needed. Screws inside the 'well are next.
Depending how clapped-out your cowls are, sometimes you need to leave
everything snug (as opposed to tight) until all the puzzle pieces are
in place (less the fillet fairings) until the cheeks are snapped on
before tightening everything completely. Just remember to pop the
cheeks back off to tighten the flush-heads under them FWD top &
bottom.

Nose bowls are next. Two layers of 2 inch masking tape flush with the
leading edge of the bottom cowl on the outside. Bowl halves together
with the bottom OUTSIDE of the bottom cowl. Top wire in, bowl will
stay in place. Baby vise grips on the bottom wire, line up the halves,
use the grips to slide the bottom #!!$$!! wire in. Carefully tip the
bowl aft at the top, fwd at the bottom 'til it slips fwd & inside of
the bottom cowl. The rest is pretty straight forward-but again, you do
not want to get the thing 75% assembled before you realize that you've
got a missing or boogered-up nutplate.

Random Aztruck thought-if you've got cowl flap stops that are long
screws threaded through a funky lock nut/L bracket riveted to the
firewall look and see if someone has threaded a plain nut up under the
locknut. If you put a plain nut on as a jam nut, it helps keep the
funky lock nut from shaking loose where it's squeezed into the little
L bracket. Can't help you with the springie-thingie on the exhaust.

TC

I'm sure I'm not telling you anything you don't know-but Apache cowls
SUCK r/r-wise. Mr. Burns just doesn't have enuff practice with his
Aztec cowls yet.

TC, are you telling me that the Apache cowls are worse than the Aztecs?
You're right, we don't have much practice with ours yet (knock on wood).
We've only had the bottoms off once so far, but it was quite and experience.
I know enough to be the "screw driver/feed it into place man" and not the
"flat on my back holding it up with two arms, one knee and the opposite
foot/can't do crap from down here man"! We weren't nearly as fast as
Denny, more like 40 minutes off and an hour on for EACH of them, but it was
our first time and we definitely learned how they fit up into the fairings!
sheesh!

Jim

I'm glad I only have a 172M. Cowl is off and back on in 10 minutes
total.

wrote in message
...
On Mon, 17 Oct 2005 19:37:55 -0700, "Jim Burns"
wrote:

I'm sure I'm not telling you anything you don't know-but Apache cowls
SUCK r/r-wise. Mr. Burns just doesn't have enuff practice with his
Aztec cowls yet.

TC, are you telling me that the Apache cowls are worse than the Aztecs?
You're right, we don't have much practice with ours yet (knock on wood).
We've only had the bottoms off once so far, but it was quite and
experience.
I know enough to be the "screw driver/feed it into place man" and not the
"flat on my back holding it up with two arms, one knee and the opposite
foot/can't do crap from down here man"! We weren't nearly as fast as
Denny, more like 40 minutes off and an hour on for EACH of them, but it
was
our first time and we definitely learned how they fit up into the
fairings!
sheesh!

Yes, they are worse.

Oldest Aztruck I ever worked on was late 60's, not entirely sure if it
is identical to yours.

Figured out a long time ago to inspect all nutplates-especially the
little #6 nutplates on the bottom cowl-EVERY TIME the cowls are off,
spray a dab of LPS2 (or equivalent) into 'em, plus use brand new
structural stainless screws (and a screwdriver that fits properly) to
put the inside-the-wheelwell crap back together. You are talking about
maybe two bucks worth of screws to save a crapload of aggravation.

Stick a body inboard and somebody outboard, feed the side channels
onto the stub mounting brackets sticking out of the firewall-making
sure that the bottom angles at the 'well are outside of the 'well tin.
Use a short tapered punch in the aft hole, stick a screw in the front
hole, snug it up, poke the screws into the aft holes-the cowl will
stay in place now while you line everything else up.

Grab a creeper, stick a screw into each "tail" sticking out aft on the
bottom, work your way up the sides of the firewall-using your foot to
apply a mild correction as needed. Screws inside the 'well are next.
Depending how clapped-out your cowls are, sometimes you need to leave
everything snug (as opposed to tight) until all the puzzle pieces are
in place (less the fillet fairings) until the cheeks are snapped on
before tightening everything completely. Just remember to pop the
cheeks back off to tighten the flush-heads under them FWD top &
bottom.

Nose bowls are next. Two layers of 2 inch masking tape flush with the
leading edge of the bottom cowl on the outside. Bowl halves together
with the bottom OUTSIDE of the bottom cowl. Top wire in, bowl will
stay in place. Baby vise grips on the bottom wire, line up the halves,
use the grips to slide the bottom #!!$$!! wire in. Carefully tip the
bowl aft at the top, fwd at the bottom 'til it slips fwd & inside of
the bottom cowl. The rest is pretty straight forward-but again, you do
not want to get the thing 75% assembled before you realize that you've
got a missing or boogered-up nutplate.

Random Aztruck thought-if you've got cowl flap stops that are long
screws threaded through a funky lock nut/L bracket riveted to the
firewall look and see if someone has threaded a plain nut up under the
locknut. If you put a plain nut on as a jam nut, it helps keep the
funky lock nut from shaking loose where it's squeezed into the little
L bracket. Can't help you with the springie-thingie on the exhaust.

TC

An annual on my lil old Cessna is less complicated.

Thanks again TC!

Oldest Aztruck I ever worked on was late 60's, not entirely sure if it
is identical to yours.

Yep, C's and D's are the same. They cover the last 1/2 of the 60's.


Figured out a long time ago to inspect all nutplates-especially the
little #6 nutplates on the bottom cowl-EVERY TIME the cowls are off,
spray a dab of LPS2 (or equivalent) into 'em,

Then just run a tap through them with your finger tips

plus use brand new
structural stainless screws (and a screwdriver that fits properly) to
put the inside-the-wheelwell crap back together. You are talking about
maybe two bucks worth of screws to save a crapload of aggravation.

Bingo. In fact, I need to order another SS screw kit. Any screw I take out
that has the slightest ding or shaved thread goes right in the garbage.

(Great step by step directions snipped.... excellent archive material and
copied and saved... basically the way we've done it and just about the only
way I can imagine doing it.)

Nose bowls I've become a pro at and can do them by myself in only a few
minutes.

Two layers of 2 inch masking tape flush with the
leading edge of the bottom cowl on the outside. ??? masking tape?

Bowl halves together
with the bottom OUTSIDE of the bottom cowl.
(or you'll get the bowl "trapped" on the inside of the cowl and won't be
able to get the bottom wire in)

Hint: coat wire and dab piano hinge with a little Dow DC4, especially the
bottom wire because it has complex curves to follow. Also, sharpen the end
of the wire to a point, it will you feed it though the piano hinge. Be sure
you get the end of the wire past the "hook" and engaged so it won't back
out.

Top wire in, bowl will
stay in place. Baby vise grips on the bottom wire, line up the halves,
use the grips to slide the bottom #!!$$!! wire in.

Again, coat the wire with DC 4. Clamp the vise grips on the wire so they
lay horizontally, rather than vertically because when you get the wire
almost all the way in, the space between the bowl and the bottom cowl
becomes very narrow. Use your free hand to massage the two halves together
while you "screw and push" the wire in with the vise grips.

Carefully tip the
bowl aft at the top, fwd at the bottom 'til it slips fwd & inside of
the bottom cowl. The rest is pretty straight forward-but again, you do
not want to get the thing 75% assembled before you realize that you've
got a missing or boogered-up nutplate.

Random Aztruck thought-if you've got cowl flap stops that are long
screws threaded through a funky lock nut/L bracket riveted to the
firewall look and see if someone has threaded a plain nut up under the
locknut. If you put a plain nut on as a jam nut, it helps keep the
funky lock nut from shaking loose where it's squeezed into the little
L bracket.

Thanks I'll check that.

Can't help you with the springie-thingie on the exhaust.

$485 new.
OR... get 2 pieces of 1/4" x 1/2" aluminum, drill 20 or so holes through
them, thread new SS cable through the holes, punch down the edge of the
aluminum so the cable can't slip inside the aluminum bars, swage the ends of
the cable. 2 hours labor and about $10 in material.

Jim

On Tue, 18 Oct 2005 08:08:41 -0500, "Jim Burns"
wrote:

snip

Random Aztruck thought-if you've got cowl flap stops that are long
screws threaded through a funky lock nut/L bracket riveted to the
firewall look and see if someone has threaded a plain nut up under the
locknut. If you put a plain nut on as a jam nut, it helps keep the
funky lock nut from shaking loose where it's squeezed into the little
L bracket.

Thanks I'll check that.

Can't help you with the springie-thingie on the exhaust.

$485 new.
OR... get 2 pieces of 1/4" x 1/2" aluminum, drill 20 or so holes through
them, thread new SS cable through the holes, punch down the edge of the
aluminum so the cable can't slip inside the aluminum bars, swage the ends of
the cable. 2 hours labor and about $10 in material.

I like it. My only problem would have been trying to sell it to the
federales (on the Pt 135 'Trucks).

'Nother big gotcha is the center hinge bolt on the main gear retract
drag link. Takes about 2 minutes to inspect. If your mechanic hasn't
been around Aztec's much they might miss it. Ours got checked every
every oil change.

Long story short, the bolt goes through two little tin ears with the
downlock springs hooked to them. The bolt snaps in the middle of the
link, the spring tension holds the bolt halves in place. The head of
the bolt is kept from rotating by an ear on the link. Looks perfectly
fine until you stick a wrench on the cotter-pinned nut and turn it
freely.

Was never able to figure out why they snapped, never had one fall out
of place (which is really strange), but have found quite a few of them
broken. There are a couple of them listed in the SDR's where the bolt
evidently didn't stay in place after it broke...

Regards;

TC

'Nother big gotcha is the center hinge bolt on the main gear retract
drag link. Takes about 2 minutes to inspect. If your mechanic hasn't
been around Aztec's much they might miss it. Ours got checked every
every oil change.

Thanks. I know exactly where you are talking about. I'll give the nuts a
turn to see if they are still attatched to the rest of the bolt!

Jim

On 17 Oct 2005 12:12:06 -0700, "Jay Honeck"
wrote:

The oil leak we've got also mists over the bottom of the engine and onto the
rear accessory case. It's mostly noticeable due to the small puddle that
accumulates on the rear of the fuel injection throttle body where the air is
rather dead. Never enough to be measurable on the dip stick, it's just a
messy irritation.

That describes our leak as well. We've got grills that look like
"gills" on both aft sides of our bottom cowling, and a tiny trail of
oil will occasionally come out the lower right side "gill" -- never the
left. After sitting overnight, a drip will fall out of that area onto
the hangar floor, below that right gill.

Looking at the bottom of the engine, it's covered with a sheen of oil
-- but finding the source has been infuriating. There is no obvious
drip or puddle, and everything appears to be tight. Hell, it could be
running down from the TOP of the engine, hitting the 150 mph
slipstream, and atomizing all over the bottom -- only to gather back
into a droplet at the very bottom/lowest point.

It's never enough to register on the dipstick, but it sure makes a
mess. I'd love to find the source.

What makes it doubly aggravating is that we installed an air/oil
separator to eliminate oil on the bottom of the plane. (Which it did
quite well, until this leak developed...)

I found that spilling a teaspoon full when filling is good enough to
cover the entire bottom of the Deb.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com