Amazing Winching Weekend in Utah

On Thursday, October 8, 2015 at 3:03:31 AM UTC+3, wrote:
On Thursday, October 8, 2015 at 5:09:52 AM UTC+11, wrote:
On Wednesday, October 7, 2015 at 10:56:08 AM UTC-5, wrote:
On Wednesday, October 7, 2015 at 12:26:10 AM UTC-6, Surge wrote:

The only gripe I have with winch launching is that the gliders I have looked at so far are not supposed to be winch launched with water ballast on board which limits the usefulness of the winch on booming days.

Which gliders are those?

Just went through my LS8-18 manual, no restrictions regarding winch tow with water except for min speed to be above 120 km/h or 65 knots, 74 mph. Winch launching with at least partial water is very common in Europe.

I have done a lot of winch launches over the years none with water as unless it is a big field my issue is can I still land ahead and stop with the extra weight if the cable breaks.

Its great for winter flying and training though. I have also come across aero tow pilots who have had little experience thermalling below 1500 feet agl where a winch trained pilot is happy at 800 feet agl.

I must have Scottish blood. Sometimes I release from the towplane at 800 ft. Usually get away with it too. (the vario has to be pegged for a few seconds for me to do it)

We were using 4,000' of rope and we're getting 1,500' - 1,700' launches. Our field elevation is 5,022'. We weren't trying for the highest possible since we were doing launch training. Once we replace the drum this winter we will be able to use up to 8,500' of rope. Will be quite a fun ride up to high alts even a tow plane will be envious of.

Bruno - B4

We use single strand. 2.7mm 1880KN breaking strain , B temper spring steel.
Lasts well over 1,000 launches - a simple square knot for repair, in the
event of a break.

We have 2,000m on our drum, of which we regularly use 1,700m and get
600-800m launch height. The winch is ancient - uses a Windsor 302 and a
3 speed box - locked in second for the launch.

Very reliable- it gives me a typical 1,200 foot launch with my Kestrel.
Record is 2,700 feet in a trainer with a strong headwind and an
experienced driver.

With a reasonably sorted crew you can easily do 5 launches an hour all
day long. With a single drum winch. A dual drum winch and that goes up
to about 8-10. Biggest limitation is conflicting traffic if you have a
glider landing and the cable retrieve wanting to use the same runway.

Lowest I have ever thermalled away from - ~500 feet. With my mother in
the front! Cable break with an inexperienced driver - loops of wire all
over one end of the runway - and cars all over the other end converging
on the cable mess. Alternate runway occupied by someone taking a
leisurely taxi- while I made an orbit to work out what I was going to do
- I observed that the Blanik's vario was indicating 4kt up. So I stayed
in the thermal and thought about it some more...


On 2015-10-08 14:51, wrote:
We were using 4,000' of rope and we're getting 1,500' - 1,700' launches. Our field elevation is 5,022'. We weren't trying for the highest possible since we were doing launch training. Once we replace the drum this winter we will be able to use up to 8,500' of rope. Will be quite a fun ride up to high alts even a tow plane will be envious of.

Bruno - B4


--
Bruce Greeff
T59D #1771

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On Friday, 9 October 2015 09:52:22 UTC+2, BruceGreeff wrote:
We have 2,000m on our drum, of which we regularly use 1,700m and get
600-800m launch height. The winch is ancient - uses a Windsor 302 and a
3 speed box - locked in second for the launch.

Very reliable- it gives me a typical 1,200 foot launch with my Kestrel.

Bruce, I'm trying to make sense of what you said.
600-800 meters AGL is approximately 2000 to 2600 feet AGL so 1200 feet AGL in your Kestrel is a 40% reduction from a 2000 foot launch.
At Orient we only see a difference of about 200 or 300 feet regardless if the glider being launched is a light single or heavy twin so I'm curious as to why you get such a large difference in your Kestrel.

On Thursday, October 8, 2015 at 6:51:08 AM UTC-6, wrote:
We were using 4,000' of rope and we're getting 1,500' - 1,700' launches. Our field elevation is 5,022'. We weren't trying for the highest possible since we were doing launch training. Once we replace the drum this winter we will be able to use up to 8,500' of rope. Will be quite a fun ride up to high alts even a tow plane will be envious of.

Bruno - B4

Yes, Nephi has the runway for it, I mean you could land a 747 on that strip.. It would be great to have both parallel tow and winch operations running at the same time on the next camp. You'd be spitting pilots into the air faster than they can land. Once pilots see the price difference, they'll be lining up for ground launch checkouts.

Roberto

Hi Paul

Sloppy writing on my part.
Maximums 600-800m - 2,000-2,600 foot.

Generally we are getting ~1500 foot launches in the trainers, in still
wind conditions. If there is a decent headwind that rapidly increases to
1700 - 2000 depending on wind - record height was 2700 feet.

With the Kestrel I need more speed before the steep climb, and the winch
is very old and underpowered. So acceleration is lower and I get
somewhat less than is possible with the Bergfalkes - typically 1200
feet. This appears to be partially due to the Kestrel's CG hook, which
seems to release earlier than I would expect.
We have a new winch, but still in the process of checking folk out to
drive it. Once operational I will no doubt get better, but it will make
little real difference - It really is no hardship thermalling away from
a 1200 foot launch in the Kestrel ;-)

Having experience of the Orient winch, I am sure you will not get that
much height difference - there is lots of power available. Consequently
the heavy glider is airborne in about the same distance as a lighter
one, and climbs comparably.
We should get much the same with our new winch.

The winch operation often triggers thermals because of the vehicles
retrieving cables etc. There are very few occasions when an aerotow
would make the difference between getting away, or not. Generally only
when the thermals are very broken lower down, but more organised higher up.

Bruce

On 2015-10-09 15:23, Surge wrote:
On Friday, 9 October 2015 09:52:22 UTC+2, BruceGreeff wrote:
We have 2,000m on our drum, of which we regularly use 1,700m and get
600-800m launch height. The winch is ancient - uses a Windsor 302 and a
3 speed box - locked in second for the launch.

Very reliable- it gives me a typical 1,200 foot launch with my Kestrel.

Bruce, I'm trying to make sense of what you said.
600-800 meters AGL is approximately 2000 to 2600 feet AGL so 1200 feet AGL in your Kestrel is a 40% reduction from a 2000 foot launch.
At Orient we only see a difference of about 200 or 300 feet regardless if the glider being launched is a light single or heavy twin so I'm curious as to why you get such a large difference in your Kestrel.


--
Bruce Greeff
T59D #1771

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Why bother with a special day. We have launched club/sports class in
parallel using a winch with the 18m and up using aero tow.

On 2015-10-07 01:08, John Cochrane wrote:
Bruno: how about winch launch day at 15 meter nationals rest day next year? ( I forgot , it's Utah. No rest days. 1000 k task every day. On the practice day then! )
John cochrane


--
Bruce Greeff
T59D #1771

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On Friday, October 9, 2015 at 11:35:04 PM UTC-7, wrote:
Yes, Nephi has the runway for it, I mean you could land a 747 on that strip.

So it's only 4800' long and 50' wide?? ;-)

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/ar...p-capt-210352/

5Z