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[OT] Nothing Learned From History



 
 
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  #42  
Old September 18th 04, 04:31 PM
Mike Dargan
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robert j. kolker wrote:



Emmanuel Gustin wrote:

The problem with such comparisons is that right-wingers are
always comparing Bush with Churchill, FDR, Kennedy, etc.;



Just what did Kennedy do in his short 3 years, besides screw up the Bay
of Pigs invasion? Creating the Camelot ambiance does not count.


He stood up to the KKK and got Ole Miss integrated.

Cheers

--mike


Bob Kolker


  #43  
Old September 19th 04, 06:32 AM
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"stop spam" wrote in message
...
From a blog I frequent... interesting parallel, perhaps, especially if
you compare the Iran-Iraq war and the invasion of Kuwait with Hitler's
pre-1939 maneuvering?


If, in 1937, Franklin D. Roosevelt would have invaded Germany, captured
Hitler, neutralized the Nazi party, and dismantled the standing
military, thus saving europe from the ravages of war, genocide, and
crimes against humanity, then the United States would have been
condemned in shame by the world as an imperialist nation of pre-emptive
aggressors, and FDR would have been cast out of office in the subsequent
election.


If the US could have invaded Germany and done all of that by themselves in
one quick swoop like the Iraq war (This would take ASB) then what would
happen to post war Germany? Without WW2 putting a strain on Stalin and the
Russian forces, could they have taken over all of europe?

Saddam was a pretty ****ty guy, but he was also the foil to Iran. A
fundamentalist Iraq-Iran super-state in the middle east isn't a pretty idea
and will end with Saudi Arabia begging us for help.

There is also a school of thought that the US should have stayed out of WW2
longer and let Russia and Germany really kill each other and maybe that
would have avoided the cold war....it's doubtful

....and yet, he would have been a Genius who was never celebrated for it.


Kinda sucks, but you can never be celebrated if you solve a problem before
it's a problem. Especially in politics.








  #44  
Old September 25th 04, 03:14 AM
Amamba
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stop spam wrote:
From a blog I frequent... interesting parallel, perhaps, especially if
you compare the Iran-Iraq war and the invasion of Kuwait with Hitler's
pre-1939 maneuvering?


If, in 1937, Franklin D. Roosevelt would have invaded Germany, captured
Hitler, neutralized the Nazi party, and dismantled the standing
military, thus saving europe from the ravages of war, genocide, and
crimes against humanity, then the United States would have been
condemned in shame by the world as an imperialist nation of pre-emptive
aggressors, and FDR would have been cast out of office in the subsequent
election.

....and yet, he would have been a Genius who was never celebrated for it.



First of all, the invasion of Iraq was not a preemptive strike. It was
President's personal reasons that drove him to war. Iraq under Saddam
was no fun but Iraq as it stands now is a breeding ground for the
terrorists and, IMHO, a much bigger threat to the US.

If W wanted to go pre-emptive, he should've dealt with N Korea (have
real WMD programs, have always threatened WMD war if touched), Pakistan
(supposedly our friends, but in reality an Islamic fundamentalist state
with nukes that lets its leading nuclear scientist to sell secrets to
other fundamentalist nation and wouldn't prosecute him for that), or the
Saudis (they finance all Osama wannabes out there & jack up oil prices
to make US pay for it). W's been afraid to touch any of them. He picked
on the wrong enemy for a wrong reason.
  #45  
Old September 25th 04, 11:26 PM
Callisto
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stop spam wrote in message ...
From a blog I frequent... interesting parallel, perhaps, especially if
you compare the Iran-Iraq war and the invasion of Kuwait with Hitler's
pre-1939 maneuvering?


If, in 1937, Franklin D. Roosevelt would have invaded Germany, captured
Hitler, neutralized the Nazi party, and dismantled the standing
military, thus saving europe from the ravages of war, genocide, and
crimes against humanity, then the United States would have been
condemned in shame by the world as an imperialist nation of pre-emptive
aggressors, and FDR would have been cast out of office in the subsequent
election.

....and yet, he would have been a Genius who was never celebrated for it.



Ponder this historical parallel. in 1810 Napoleon decides to bring the
benefits of the French Revolution to the backward, benighted country
of Spain, delivering her from the disastrous rule of the Bourbons
(Charles IV and Fernando VII who were fighting each other at the
time). He sends a liberating army, overthrows both absolutists Kings,
and puts a constitutional king on the throen, thus giving Spain the
benefit of the Illustration and Democracy.

The Spaniards rise against the French, and a long, brutal guerrilla
war.

The story ends with Napoleon dying in the arms of St. Helena...
  #47  
Old September 25th 04, 11:51 PM
Keith Willshaw
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"Callisto" wrote in message
om...
stop spam wrote in message
...
From a blog I frequent... interesting parallel, perhaps, especially if
you compare the Iran-Iraq war and the invasion of Kuwait with Hitler's
pre-1939 maneuvering?


If, in 1937, Franklin D. Roosevelt would have invaded Germany, captured
Hitler, neutralized the Nazi party, and dismantled the standing
military, thus saving europe from the ravages of war, genocide, and
crimes against humanity, then the United States would have been
condemned in shame by the world as an imperialist nation of pre-emptive
aggressors, and FDR would have been cast out of office in the subsequent
election.

....and yet, he would have been a Genius who was never celebrated for it.



Ponder this historical parallel. in 1810 Napoleon decides to bring the
benefits of the French Revolution to the backward, benighted country
of Spain, delivering her from the disastrous rule of the Bourbons
(Charles IV and Fernando VII who were fighting each other at the
time). He sends a liberating army, overthrows both absolutists Kings,
and puts a constitutional king on the throen, thus giving Spain the
benefit of the Illustration and Democracy.


1808 Actually and the king just happened to be his brother.

Keith



  #49  
Old September 26th 04, 10:43 PM
Fred the Red Shirt
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"ian maclure" wrote in message ...
On Thu, 16 Sep 2004 14:51:31 -0700, Fred the Red Shirt wrote:

[snip]

In 1937 Germany was the most populous nation in Western Europe, the
most technologically advanced continent. Germany had the potential
to do eaxctly what Hitler did.

In 2002 Iraq had nowhere near that potential, indeed even in 1991
Iraq had no where near that potential.


Sodom the Insane and the Baathless Part are toast.
They ain't comin' back.
Get used to the idea.


He's not dead yet.

--

FF
 




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