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#21
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"RST Engineering" wrote in message ... Spoken by what I believe to be a flatland pilot who doesn't get the chance to fly mountains much and is fascinated with the scenery. I've scraped a few of you off of our hills with a bucket and a spoon in the last forty years of flying search and rescue, and it ain't fun, no matter how much you think it might be. I was taught to fly in the Laguna and Cuyamaca mountains of Southern California and teach mountain flying as a necessity out of my home base in the Sierra. I fly the Sierra on a daily basis; the Wasatch and the Rockies twice a year. I think I've got my fair share of mountain flying in the 4500 hours in my logbook. I've also had two complete engine failures due to mechanical failure, one in the Sierra and one in the Rockies. So far the fatalities have been a video camera and my wris****ch. Plus a very pretty C-172. I absolutely DETEST know-it-alls who come on here and say, "well, I don't have any data, but I suspect..." Suspect isn't worth a bucket of warm ****. Finally, I teach math, and sometimes I get into probability and statistics. For a damfool to come on here and say that since somebody flies infrequently over water and mountains that isn't anything to worry about is the height of stupidity. The engine has exactly the same chance of failing per minute over hostile terrain as per minute directly over a 10,000 foot runway. Do I fly over water or mountains? On a regular basis. Do I keep something that I can land on directly beneath me at all times? You bet. To say that Tioga pass is safer than downtown LA is just plain stupid. In the first place, there are concrete flood drains all over the city. In the second place, there are very few freeways that are filled in BOTH directions at the same time, and if they are, then there are alternative freeways that you can use. THere are racetracks. There are football fields, there are golf courses, there are a dozen places where you will walk away from an engine failure. Not so Tioga or any of the other mountain passes. Sure, the pass ITSELF has the meadows at the top, but the route getting TO the pass is inhospitable in the extreme. So also the downhill trip on the leeward side of the hill. The man has a choice. Go over Tioga Pass and hope for the best or go down south to Tehachapi pass with an interstate freeway underneath you from Bakersfield to Mojave. Tioga is pretty. Tehachapi is survivable. Your call. Oh, and Earl, tell us how many mountain flying hours you have and where you teach out of please? Jim I have zero hours flying over mountians and do not teach. I was asking a question and instead of answering you go off on some rant. The question is "Just what is the failure rate, excluding fuel exhaustion, of single engine planes while in flight?" By this question I meant engine failure rate, not any type of mechanical failure. I am sure you probably have "scraped a few of you off of our hills", but how many were from engine failures versus some other cause (weather, pilot error, etc.)? If you teach math then maybe you could just answer the question. The reason why I suspect the failure rate over mountains and water is low is because the failure rate over anywhere else appears to be low. Sure engines can fail and it can happen to anyone, but what is the failure rate? "Earl Grieda" wrote in message ink.net... I always wonder about these statements about how someone never flies over water or mountains because they have a single engine plane. Just what is the failure rate, excluding fuel exhaustion, of single engine planes while in flight? Although I do not have any data I suspect it is so low as to be negligible. So, if you infrequently fly over water and mountains, why worry. Not to say that it can't happen, but you could also be hit by a meteor while flying yet we don't worry about that. |
#22
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RST,
Ah, the joys of the always friendly, non-condescending posts of a true newsgroup expert... ;-) I've scraped a few of you off of our hills with a bucket and a spoon in the last forty years of flying search and rescue, Ok, how many and how many of those due to engine failure? I've also had two complete engine failures due to mechanical failure, one in the Sierra and one in the Rockies. So far the fatalities have been a video camera and my wris****ch. Plus a very pretty C-172. More data to support the view that the risk isn't nowhere nearly as high as you wanted to make it in your original post. I absolutely DETEST know-it-alls who come on here and say, "well, I don't have any data, but I suspect..." Which nobody did. And you didn't present statistically sound "data", either, as I'm sure you know, what with your superior math education. But - never miss a chance for throwing around some insults, right? That's something I DETEST! To each his own... For a damfool to come on here and say that since somebody flies infrequently over water and mountains that isn't anything to worry about is the height of stupidity. Which, again, nobody did. "Risk management" are the key words, not fear mongering - see two quotes below. Not so Tioga or any of the other mountain passes. Well, I've flown both L.A. and Tioga - and I disagree. You conveniently left out power lines, for example. Tioga is pretty. Tehachapi is survivable. Your call. To say or imply that "Tioga is not survivable" is utter BS, plain and simple. And fear mongering to the extreme (see above). Oh, and Earl, tell us how many mountain flying hours you have and where you teach out of please? Ah, the "argument by authority" trick. It sucks! Every time! -- Thomas Borchert (EDDH) |
#23
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"RST Engineering" wrote in message ... SNIP Do I fly over water or mountains? On a regular basis. Do I keep something that I can land on directly beneath me at all times? You bet. To say that Tioga pass is safer than downtown LA is just plain stupid. In the first place, there are concrete flood drains all over the city. In the second place, there are very few freeways that are filled in BOTH directions at the same time, and if they are, then there are alternative freeways that you can use. THere are racetracks. There are football fields, there are golf courses, there are a dozen places where you will walk away from an engine failure. The original post had two topics: mountains and MOAs. When I referred to the hazards of flying in the LA Basin, that was related to the MOAs and the opportunity to encounter another flying machine, not the Sierra. The man has a choice. Go over Tioga Pass and hope for the best or go down south to Tehachapi pass with an interstate freeway underneath you from Bakersfield to Mojave. Tioga is pretty. Tehachapi is survivable. Your call. I heartily agree with flying the Tehachapi route or the Kern Valley over Lake Isabella, versus Tioga. But my reasons are different. In either direction, over the two southern routes, the countour lines are packed tightly together for only a short time on either side with a relatively flat area in between. And I wouldn't count on the four-lane freeway for a landing. Next time you cross over there, count the 55,000-pound, 18-wheelers and gauge the space in between them. Grin We're on the same side of the argument, Jim, just a hair apart. Casey Wilson Freelance Writer and Photographer |
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