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Glider near miss with Airliner (emergency climb) near Chicago yesterday?



 
 
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  #101  
Old October 12th 17, 06:54 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Rich Owen[_2_]
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Posts: 37
Default Glider near miss with Airliner (emergency climb) near Chicago yesterday?

Did anyone comment about departing aircraft from airports are climbing out and being in the way of arriving aircraft. At Newark when your landing on 04 you are down low for a long time. That is due to arrivals into Teterboro, LGA and JFK. Departures from these same airports force ATC to bring arrivals in lower than anyone wants. For airline pilots we would like to be at altitude until we pull the engines to idle and not move them until the flair. STARS help in that regard and lessens ATC workload. Flying into Reno one day, I was right over Minden airport at a reasonable glider altitude. The operations/glider pilots out there and ATC have a great relationship. We need more efforts like that to midigate problems like Chicago.

Military fighters climb at 300kts (except A-10’s) unless you want to show off. VR routes do allow flights down to 200ft AGL. I’ve been west of Seminole-Lake Gliderport and seen everything from B-52’s, F-16’s to C-130’s on the IR by the gliderport. When flying around Avon Park you have to watch for fighters using transiting to/from the bombing range under 5,000ft.

Florida has a great number of corporate jets that fly in our airspace. It isn’t uncommon to see jets below 5K skirting the Class B around Orlando to fly into Orlando Executive. They also transit to Ocala, Tampa, and Kissemmee VFR. I’m buying a transponder for my ship just to be a little more visible in the airspace. Hope to see some of you all down here in March.

Cheers,
Rich
ZO
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  #102  
Old October 12th 17, 07:04 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
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Default Glider near miss with Airliner (emergency climb) near Chicago yesterday?

Hope to see some of you all down here in March.

Of course, condo is booked through second week of May.
Noticed you already have two dozen entries. Only about three dozen more before you're full.
  #103  
Old October 12th 17, 07:49 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
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Default Glider near miss with Airliner (emergency climb) near Chicago yesterday?

I was cross countrying in Brazil Central Plateau last week. As it was to be a long flight (9+ hours) and with scarce air traffic, I kept radio watch but transponder off.
When passing about 5 miles South of an untowered airport, I heard a descending exec jet, asked for his position and bearing and calculated we were going to cross paths, warned the jet pilot and turned on my transponder.
He deviated to the left after I appeared in his TCAS and crossed in front of the glider exactly in the same altitude...
  #104  
Old October 13th 17, 02:17 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Dan Marotta
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Default Glider near miss with Airliner (emergency climb) near Chicagoyesterday?

Good plan, Rich.* I highly recommend the Trig TT22.* It's a 1090ES
transponder and easily upgraded to ADS-B Out when/if you're ready. The
price is also reasonable.

On 10/12/2017 11:54 AM, Rich Owen wrote:
Did anyone comment about departing aircraft from airports are climbing out and being in the way of arriving aircraft. At Newark when your landing on 04 you are down low for a long time. That is due to arrivals into Teterboro, LGA and JFK. Departures from these same airports force ATC to bring arrivals in lower than anyone wants. For airline pilots we would like to be at altitude until we pull the engines to idle and not move them until the flair. STARS help in that regard and lessens ATC workload. Flying into Reno one day, I was right over Minden airport at a reasonable glider altitude. The operations/glider pilots out there and ATC have a great relationship. We need more efforts like that to midigate problems like Chicago.

Military fighters climb at 300kts (except A-10’s) unless you want to show off. VR routes do allow flights down to 200ft AGL. I’ve been west of Seminole-Lake Gliderport and seen everything from B-52’s, F-16’s to C-130’s on the IR by the gliderport. When flying around Avon Park you have to watch for fighters using transiting to/from the bombing range under 5,000ft.

Florida has a great number of corporate jets that fly in our airspace. It isn’t uncommon to see jets below 5K skirting the Class B around Orlando to fly into Orlando Executive. They also transit to Ocala, Tampa, and Kissemmee VFR. I’m buying a transponder for my ship just to be a little more visible in the airspace. Hope to see some of you all down here in March.

Cheers,
Rich
ZO


--
Dan, 5J
  #105  
Old October 13th 17, 12:42 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Mike Schumann[_2_]
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Posts: 103
Default Glider near miss with Airliner (emergency climb) near Chicago yesterday?

On Thursday, October 12, 2017 at 12:54:24 PM UTC-5, Rich Owen wrote:
Did anyone comment about departing aircraft from airports are climbing out and being in the way of arriving aircraft. At Newark when your landing on 04 you are down low for a long time. That is due to arrivals into Teterboro, LGA and JFK. Departures from these same airports force ATC to bring arrivals in lower than anyone wants. For airline pilots we would like to be at altitude until we pull the engines to idle and not move them until the flair. STARS help in that regard and lessens ATC workload. Flying into Reno one day, I was right over Minden airport at a reasonable glider altitude. The operations/glider pilots out there and ATC have a great relationship. We need more efforts like that to midigate problems like Chicago.

Military fighters climb at 300kts (except A-10’s) unless you want to show off. VR routes do allow flights down to 200ft AGL. I’ve been west of Seminole-Lake Gliderport and seen everything from B-52’s, F-16’s to C-130’s on the IR by the gliderport. When flying around Avon Park you have to watch for fighters using transiting to/from the bombing range under 5,000ft.

Florida has a great number of corporate jets that fly in our airspace. It isn’t uncommon to see jets below 5K skirting the Class B around Orlando to fly into Orlando Executive. They also transit to Ocala, Tampa, and Kissemmee VFR. I’m buying a transponder for my ship just to be a little more visible in the airspace. Hope to see some of you all down here in March.

Cheers,
Rich
ZO


Are these military aircraft equipped with transponders and/or ADS-B OUT? Do they show up on TIS-B in a properly ADS-B IN and OUT equipped aircraft?
  #106  
Old October 13th 17, 01:22 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Rich Owen[_2_]
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Posts: 37
Default Glider near miss with Airliner (emergency climb) near Chicago yesterday?

All military aircraft have transponders and we do show up on on civilian equipment.
  #107  
Old October 13th 17, 08:59 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
JS[_5_]
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Default Glider near miss with Airliner (emergency climb) near Chicago yesterday?

On Friday, October 13, 2017 at 5:22:24 AM UTC-7, Rich Owen wrote:
All military aircraft have transponders and we do show up on on civilian equipment.


In my experience, transponders in F- things don't seem to be the norm, Rich..

Half an hour ago a B-1 and two F-16s roared past my house at a reasonably fast pace. One of the fighters was yanking and banking at less than 1000' AGL, quite legal in the MOA, part of the R2508 Complex (2508 user handbook link below). Looked like they went overhead Tehachapi Municipal, a few miles from the glider operation at Mountain Valley Airport, apparently on their way to Edwards AFB for a Chuck Yeager supersonic anniversary.

The responsibility to see and avoid is on all of us. If you fly in heavily trafficked areas, use Mode C or better and turn the thing on. I can think of one excuse for a SLSP flying near ORD not to be at least squawking 1202: Not accepting the second word in this paragraph.
Jim

http://www.edwards.af.mil/Portals/50...-21-080711-260
  #108  
Old October 14th 17, 02:48 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
WaltWX[_2_]
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Posts: 226
Default Glider near miss with Airliner (emergency climb) near Chicago yesterday?

On Friday, October 13, 2017 at 5:22:24 AM UTC-7, Rich Owen wrote:
All military aircraft have transponders and we do show up on on civilian equipment.


WX here... Walt Rogers.

In October 2015 I filed a NASA Safety Report for a near miss with a fighter roaring it's way out of restricted airspace near China Lake NAS intersecting my path 200 feet above. I literally mean... ROARING... because that's how I became aware of it. After passing by I checked my PowerFlarm and found no transponder target. It may have been a Euro fighter that clearly was in non restricted airspace (MOA) and not marked by transponder.

I agree with JS... and have come to my own conclusion that not all these fighters are squawking with a transponder.

The encounter motivated me to install a transponder (Trig T22) over the winter.

Sure hope that DOD budget can afford ADS-B out 1090ES for all their equipment.


  #109  
Old October 14th 17, 07:34 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Rich Owen[_2_]
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Posts: 37
Default Glider near miss with Airliner (emergency climb) near Chicago yesterday?

Guys, I flew fighters for 22 years. The only time I turned my transponder off was in Libyia and during Desert Storm. Can’t say about my fellow fighter pilots but it was not the norm to leave mode C off. I think if you are in an area where military or civilian “fast movers” fly, a transponder is a smart move! It will never make up for good look out doctrine.

Cheers,
Rich
  #110  
Old October 14th 17, 02:03 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
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Default Glider near miss with Airliner (emergency climb) near Chicago yesterday?

After passing by I checked my PowerFlarm and found no transponder target.

For powerflarm to see a Mode C or Mode S transponders, the target needs to be interrogated by a ground station or another aircraft.
The powerflarm itself does not interrogate does it?
 




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