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ATC Privatization, HR 2997



 
 
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  #1  
Old October 4th 17, 11:31 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Tango Eight
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Posts: 442
Default ATC Privatization, HR 2997

Received this morning... see below. Anyone know the issues, particularly the flip side? Thx.

best,
Evan Ludeman / T8



Dear Evan,

I am writing to ask if you could please take a few minutes and call your representative in Congress, THIS WEEK! If you have already called, please call again and let them know that you oppose HR 2997. This is vital as we fight to protect our freedom to fly.

I know you have heard from me on a couple of occasions over the last few months about HR 2997, a bill that would hand over our air traffic control system to the airlines. And now, once again, supporters of the planned proposal are planning to schedule the bill for a vote next week in the U.S House of Representatives, the 11th of October

Your voice is critical in this fight. Privatization proponents are making calls and twisting arms every day to gain support. We must remain vigilant, which is why I am asking you to please take a few minutes and contact Congresswoman Ann Kuster and voice your strong opposition to HR 2997. You can reach them at (202) 225-5206

Here are some talking points to use when you call:

I am a constituent and I oppose HR 2997.
HR 2997 simply hands over our Air Traffic Control system to a board controlled by the airlines and special interests.
This legislation will not reduce delays – 80% of delays today are caused by the airlines (crew scheduling, flight scheduling, maintenance), and weather events.
We have the largest, safest, and most efficient air traffic system in the world.
This proposal is risky and has many unintended consequences.
According to the Congressional Budget Office, HR 2997 will add $100 billion dollars to the deficit.
The American Conservative Union foundation says this is not privatization and has requested the bill be pulled.
The General Accountability Office says that this transition will slow modernization of our air traffic control system.
The Congressional Research Service says that HR 2997 is most likely unconstitutional.
Nearly 200 General Aviation organizations, small airports, mayors, unions, conservative groups, and many others oppose HR 2997.

Thanks for your time and your support!

Mark Baker, President & CEO Aircraft Owners and Pilots Association
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  #2  
Old October 4th 17, 12:10 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
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Posts: 173
Default ATC Privatization, HR 2997

Mostly they are worried about airplane pilots having to pay per flight for ATC services. Won't affect soaring much. Motor pilots argue ATC services are paid for with avgas tax, but that also means they are subsidized by everyone that burns avgas and doesn't use ATC. Bigger issue is if a private company and a monopoly is making money off controlled airspace then they are likely to lobby for more controlled airspace. See red light camera scumbaggery for an example. Could argue that there is a safety issue, if every request to ATC generates a bill less pilots will use ATC. I think the ADSB mandate for motorplanes(in certain airspace) is going to drive more pilots out of the ATC system then pay per use would. Not getting excited I suspect the bill is privatization theatre and other than generating donations for the advocacy orgs will be a nothing burger. And if the rules do get too onerous we'll just paint all our gliders and towplanes black and fly at night.
  #3  
Old October 4th 17, 02:49 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Tango Eight
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Posts: 442
Default ATC Privatization, HR 2997

On further reflection, this is an inherently detestable idea. It's not "privatization". It's "privatization and the creation of a government protected, rent seeking, unaccountable monopoly".

best,
Evan

  #4  
Old October 4th 17, 04:37 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
JS[_5_]
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Posts: 60
Default ATC Privatization, HR 2997

Note that is is not necessary to hit the star key after the representative hangs up, if you already hear "connecting to the next lawmaker".

The proposed system could be as bad as or worse than privately run prisons.
Jim


On Wednesday, October 4, 2017 at 4:10:22 AM UTC-7, wrote:
Mostly they are worried about airplane pilots having to pay per flight for ATC services. Won't affect soaring much. Motor pilots argue ATC services are paid for with avgas tax, but that also means they are subsidized by everyone that burns avgas and doesn't use ATC. Bigger issue is if a private company and a monopoly is making money off controlled airspace then they are likely to lobby for more controlled airspace. See red light camera scumbaggery for an example. Could argue that there is a safety issue, if every request to ATC generates a bill less pilots will use ATC. I think the ADSB mandate for motorplanes(in certain airspace) is going to drive more pilots out of the ATC system then pay per use would. Not getting excited I suspect the bill is privatization theatre and other than generating donations for the advocacy orgs will be a nothing burger. And if the rules do get too onerous we'll just paint all our gliders and towplanes black and fly at night.
Parachute people sent this:
THIS MAY BE OUR LAST CHANCE TO SAVE SKYDIVING FROM DIRE CONSEQUENCES

October 3, 2017

The proponents of the bad idea of stripping air traffic control from the FAA, and handing it to a new private corporation are planning to have the House vote on their bill--HR 2997--next week. All of the general aviation (GA) groups, including USPA, are opposed.

If you have not called your Congressional Representative and secured their "no" vote on HR 2997, please do so now!

1. Dial toll-free: 833-GAVOICE (833-428-6423), weekdays from 9-5 Eastern.

2. You will be asked to input your zip code then transferred to your Representative's office.

3. Say: "I am opposed to ATC privatization, and my Representative should vote 'no' on HR 2997."

If you do not call, and HR 2997 passes Congress and is signed into law, here is what could happen:
The airlines and large airports will gain control of the new ATC board, outweighing GA and skydiving interests.
FAA's current "first come, first served" ATC policy will be eliminated, degrading service to skydive operators.
Decisions affecting airspace and ATC procedures will favor airline efficiency and penalize skydiving operational and airspace needs.
Drop Zones could lose airspace.
Skydive operators will incur higher costs due to increased flight times; jump ticket costs will increase.
For more information, go to www.atcnotforsale.com.

Please call! The future of skydiving, and all of GA, is at stake!


  #5  
Old October 4th 17, 06:10 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Frank Whiteley
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Posts: 1,753
Default ATC Privatization, HR 2997

On Wednesday, October 4, 2017 at 5:10:22 AM UTC-6, wrote:
Mostly they are worried about airplane pilots having to pay per flight for ATC services. Won't affect soaring much. Motor pilots argue ATC services are paid for with avgas tax, but that also means they are subsidized by everyone that burns avgas and doesn't use ATC. Bigger issue is if a private company and a monopoly is making money off controlled airspace then they are likely to lobby for more controlled airspace. See red light camera scumbaggery for an example. Could argue that there is a safety issue, if every request to ATC generates a bill less pilots will use ATC. I think the ADSB mandate for motorplanes(in certain airspace) is going to drive more pilots out of the ATC system then pay per use would. Not getting excited I suspect the bill is privatization theatre and other than generating donations for the advocacy orgs will be a nothing burger. And if the rules do get too onerous we'll just paint all our gliders and towplanes black and fly at night.
Parachute people sent this:
THIS MAY BE OUR LAST CHANCE TO SAVE SKYDIVING FROM DIRE CONSEQUENCES

October 3, 2017

The proponents of the bad idea of stripping air traffic control from the FAA, and handing it to a new private corporation are planning to have the House vote on their bill--HR 2997--next week. All of the general aviation (GA) groups, including USPA, are opposed.

If you have not called your Congressional Representative and secured their "no" vote on HR 2997, please do so now!

1. Dial toll-free: 833-GAVOICE (833-428-6423), weekdays from 9-5 Eastern.

2. You will be asked to input your zip code then transferred to your Representative's office.

3. Say: "I am opposed to ATC privatization, and my Representative should vote 'no' on HR 2997."

If you do not call, and HR 2997 passes Congress and is signed into law, here is what could happen:
The airlines and large airports will gain control of the new ATC board, outweighing GA and skydiving interests.
FAA's current "first come, first served" ATC policy will be eliminated, degrading service to skydive operators.
Decisions affecting airspace and ATC procedures will favor airline efficiency and penalize skydiving operational and airspace needs.
Drop Zones could lose airspace.
Skydive operators will incur higher costs due to increased flight times; jump ticket costs will increase.
For more information, go to www.atcnotforsale.com.

Please call! The future of skydiving, and all of GA, is at stake!


A similar type of thinking brought us the USPS many years ago. How's that working out? I keeping thinking ADS-B's larger impact will be that it will become the toll beacon of the sky. That will impact soaring and all air sports as I'm sure any exemptions will canceled in a privatized ATC sky. Transponders squawking 1202 will just not be 'safe' enough.
  #6  
Old October 7th 17, 01:43 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
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Posts: 24
Default ATC Privatization, HR 2997

I keeping thinking ADS-B's larger impact will be that it will become the toll beacon of the sky. That will impact soaring and all air sports as I'm sure any exemptions will canceled in a privatized ATC sky. Transponders squawking 1202 will just not be 'safe' enough.

Frank, glad to see someone else believes we will eventually all be paying a toll whether we use ATC or not. The problem with privatization is that it is based on user fees and giving priority to the airlines. That is sort of like giving bus lines control and priority over cars, which has already happened in some places. The initial response by GA will be to avoid ATC to avoid fees. Pilots that might have flown on an IFR flight plan (even in VMC) or requested flight following, will then fly without ATC. The chance of a mid-air for GA will most certainly increase. It does not appear the airlines have realized the problem it will create for themselves by having so many more GA pilots outside the ATC system. Currently, ATC will vector a GA pilot they are controlling to minimize the impact on airlines in the same vicinity. If ATC is not talking to the GA aircraft, then the airlines will have to do ALL of the vectoring to avoid GA. That will eventually lead to major inefficiencies for the airlines and they will then need to lobby for all aircraft to be controlled over larger areas or lose even more money. Eventually, all of the airspace could become "controlled" and everyone pays a user fee. We do not even need ADSB for that to happen, since the mode-S transponders we use now give ATC and the FAA all the information they need to send us a bill whether we use ATC or not. I've received dozens of invoices from Canada even though I have not flown there in more than 15 years.. Either their system has issues, someone is flying with my mode-s code, the N number was heard incorrectly, or they simply want to send out bills hoping the payee will not notice. I even received an invoice for my balloon of all things. The sad part is that I have to be the one to prove my aircraft was not there, not the other way around. While I do not expect this all to happen in my lifetime, the next generation or two will not have the opportunities we all had.
  #7  
Old October 7th 17, 04:08 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Dan Marotta
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Posts: 2,780
Default ATC Privatization, HR 2997

Just curious...* If any country sent me a bill for my US registered
aircraft and I'd not flown it in that country, I'd tell them politely
that it wasn't me and then ignore all further communications from them.

As to tolls, last I heard the air was free and, since I'm not required
to have a transponder, I could simply remove it.* Problem solved (for now).


On 10/7/2017 6:43 AM, wrote:
I keeping thinking ADS-B's larger impact will be that it will become the toll beacon of the sky. That will impact soaring and all air sports as I'm sure any exemptions will canceled in a privatized ATC sky. Transponders squawking 1202 will just not be 'safe' enough.

Frank, glad to see someone else believes we will eventually all be paying a toll whether we use ATC or not. The problem with privatization is that it is based on user fees and giving priority to the airlines. That is sort of like giving bus lines control and priority over cars, which has already happened in some places. The initial response by GA will be to avoid ATC to avoid fees. Pilots that might have flown on an IFR flight plan (even in VMC) or requested flight following, will then fly without ATC. The chance of a mid-air for GA will most certainly increase. It does not appear the airlines have realized the problem it will create for themselves by having so many more GA pilots outside the ATC system. Currently, ATC will vector a GA pilot they are controlling to minimize the impact on airlines in the same vicinity. If ATC is not talking to the GA aircraft, then the airlines will have to do ALL of the vectoring to avoid GA. That will eventually lead to major inefficiencies for the airlines and they will then need to lobby for all aircraft to be controlled over larger areas or lose even more money. Eventually, all of the airspace could become "controlled" and everyone pays a user fee. We do not even need ADSB for that to happen, since the mode-S transponders we use now give ATC and the FAA all the information they need to send us a bill whether we use ATC or not. I've received dozens of invoices from Canada even though I have not flown there in more than 15 years. Either their system has issues, someone is flying with my mode-s code, the N number was heard incorrectly, or they simply want to send out bills hoping the payee will not notice. I even received an invoice for my balloon of all things. The sad part is that I have to be the one to prove my aircraft was not there, not the other way around. While I do not expect this all to happen in my lifetime, the next generation or two will not have the opportunities we all had.


--
Dan, 5J

  #8  
Old October 7th 17, 04:23 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
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Posts: 24
Default ATC Privatization, HR 2997

Just curious... If any country sent me a bill for my US registered
aircraft and I'd not flown it in that country, I'd tell them politely
that it wasn't me and then ignore all further communications from them.

I agree and tried that. I got followup invoices with late fees and penalties.
The US has some sort of obligation agreement to help them collect fees, so the US gets involved too.
They eventually assigned a debt collector to harass me.
I finally had to get an attorney involved.
I spent far more money fighting it, than if I had just paid the tolls, but then it was the "principle of the thing" and I am stubborn.

When you see how much of the money goes to the "administration" cost of these systems, it is really sad.
  #10  
Old October 7th 17, 06:25 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
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Posts: 24
Default ATC Privatization, HR 2997

My only similar incident was when I received a bill for *fuel* for my
ASW-19b from a North Carolina FBO and I had only flown it in Texas at
that time.*


Funny, does your ASW-19b burn 100LL or JetA?
Never had an issue with fuel bills, although I have received incorrect landing fee invoices from airports.
 




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