Tow plane ideas

From https://www.ygc.co.uk/info/our-fleet

Our powered fleet of tow planes consists of Two Piper Pawnees, and a Eurofox. The addition of the Eurofox has reduced the cost of aerotows substantially, it uses a much smaller amount of fuel per tow. They're also less polluting, so we're doing our bit for the environment too! We are presently upgrading the Eurofox to a more powerful 120bhp engine, and have begun the process of building a second aircraft in the same configuration to allow them to fulfil even more of the overall towing duties.

I wonder if the Eurofox with the 120bhp engine will be as capable as the Pawnee? Sutton Bank operates in high winds, but the elevation is less than 1000 MSL, and with cool weather they have low density altitudes. It also helps that the field is on top of an escarpment similar to Harris Hill. The UK is getting a lot of experience with the Eurofox. I think there is a similar aircraft sold in the USA with an 'American Sounding' name.

Great example of high wind glider operations at Sutton Bank https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKyaelQmA4U

On Wednesday, May 26, 2021 at 7:13:26 PM UTC-5, son_of_flubber wrote:
From https://www.ygc.co.uk/info/our-fleet

Our powered fleet of tow planes consists of Two Piper Pawnees, and a Eurofox. The addition of the Eurofox has reduced the cost of aerotows substantially, it uses a much smaller amount of fuel per tow. They're also less polluting, so we're doing our bit for the environment too! We are presently upgrading the Eurofox to a more powerful 120bhp engine, and have begun the process of building a second aircraft in the same configuration to allow them to fulfil even more of the overall towing duties.

I wonder if the Eurofox with the 120bhp engine will be as capable as the Pawnee? Sutton Bank operates in high winds, but the elevation is less than 1000 MSL, and with cool weather they have low density altitudes. It also helps that the field is on top of an escarpment similar to Harris Hill. The UK is getting a lot of experience with the Eurofox. I think there is a similar aircraft sold in the USA with an 'American Sounding' name.

Great example of high wind glider operations at Sutton Bank https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKyaelQmA4U

180hp stc for Supercubs exist for the 4cyl o-360, dunno what the earlier ref to 6 cyl maintenance was about. RV series liable to make a poor towplane, not a lot of wing and FAA boilerplate restrictions do not allow amateur-built aircraft to be used for towing. You could probably get it knocked down but don't expect help from SSA.

On Thursday, 27 May 2021 at 03:15:00 UTC+1, wrote:
On Wednesday, May 26, 2021 at 7:13:26 PM UTC-5, son_of_flubber wrote:
From https://www.ygc.co.uk/info/our-fleet

Our powered fleet of tow planes consists of Two Piper Pawnees, and a Eurofox. The addition of the Eurofox has reduced the cost of aerotows substantially, it uses a much smaller amount of fuel per tow. They're also less polluting, so we're doing our bit for the environment too! We are presently upgrading the Eurofox to a more powerful 120bhp engine, and have begun the process of building a second aircraft in the same configuration to allow them to fulfil even more of the overall towing duties.

I wonder if the Eurofox with the 120bhp engine will be as capable as the Pawnee? Sutton Bank operates in high winds, but the elevation is less than 1000 MSL, and with cool weather they have low density altitudes. It also helps that the field is on top of an escarpment similar to Harris Hill. The UK is getting a lot of experience with the Eurofox. I think there is a similar aircraft sold in the USA with an 'American Sounding' name.

Great example of high wind glider operations at Sutton Bank https://www..youtube.com/watch?v=ZKyaelQmA4U
180hp stc for Supercubs exist for the 4cyl o-360, dunno what the earlier ref to 6 cyl maintenance was about. RV series liable to make a poor towplane, not a lot of wing and FAA boilerplate restrictions do not allow amateur-built aircraft to be used for towing. You could probably get it knocked down but don't expect help from SSA.

I think I flew that Northers!
What has not been said is the engine problems with the Eurofox.
There are no Eurofoxes currently flying at ygc because of engine problems.
Any one interested should contact them, they are very motivated as it has cost a fortune in engines because the engine supplier (not Rotax) is yet to accept liability for several sub 100 hour engines.
Other Rotax based engines are available but the total grunt needed to get a heaver 2 seater in the air safely requires as many HP as you can get.
At the time I had a Duo Discus xlt and a 200lbs partner; with the mk1 smaller engine 'fox we needed the escarpment and the curve of the earth to get to release hight.

You might give some thought to the Citabria 7GCBC - 180 hp with flaps. It's a nice plane with a good power/weight ratio.
Prices on L-19s have gone crazy and they are all +50 years old. Pawnees are OK but you get limited on your ability to train new tow pilots, parts are hard to get, and they all smell bad.
ROY

On Thursday, May 27, 2021 at 7:39:32 AM UTC-4, Roy B. wrote:
You might give some thought to the Citabria 7GCBC - 180 hp with flaps. It's a nice plane with a good power/weight ratio.
Prices on L-19s have gone crazy and they are all +50 years old. Pawnees are OK but you get limited on your ability to train new tow pilots, parts are hard to get, and they all smell bad.
ROY

Is that why the motor glider enthusiast say that I stink?

On Wednesday, May 26, 2021 at 2:37:37 PM UTC-4, wrote:
My glider club is looking into the possibility of a new or upgraded tow plane. We currently have a 160hp supercub, but we have also looked into a rare-as-hens-teeth piper pawnee. As i poke around barnstormers and trade a plane, i have seen ads for a 190hp vans RV-6, a maule 235, a stinson 200+ hp, motorgliders, cessna 188, etc.

Anyone out there have some ideas for a tow plane that might be very functional but also (perhaps) not well known? Ive seen stories on stinson's maule's and wilga's being used in the past, for example, but it would be good to hear of some currently used "unusual" towplanes.

thanks for any feedback!

I don't know your special needs but many of the suggested options are not much better that the Cub. We have used our 160 hp Cub for over 40 years with good results. It is hard to find an easier tug to keep operating. One real improvement was adding the seaplane(Borer) prop. It really improves initial acceleration and lets the engine turn higher rpm which adds usable horsepower. It also comes down faster. When you are ready for a second tug, wait until you can find a Pawnee.
Good luck
UH

On Wednesday, May 26, 2021 at 1:37:37 PM UTC-5, wrote:
My glider club is looking into the possibility of a new or upgraded tow plane. We currently have a 160hp supercub, but we have also looked into a rare-as-hens-teeth piper pawnee. As i poke around barnstormers and trade a plane, i have seen ads for a 190hp vans RV-6, a maule 235, a stinson 200+ hp, motorgliders, cessna 188, etc.

Anyone out there have some ideas for a tow plane that might be very functional but also (perhaps) not well known? Ive seen stories on stinson's maule's and wilga's being used in the past, for example, but it would be good to hear of some currently used "unusual" towplanes.

thanks for any feedback!

Callair 290HP on Wings and Wheels classifieds for 37K.

It is possible (or so I am told) to actually import a Pawnee from Argentina.. The paperwork and processing will probably choke the last bit of life out of your club, but it's at least possible.

I have seen (personally) the Callair and know the seller. It's not a pretty airplane but I doubt you'll find one with a better powerplant for the money.

I know where there is an out of time Pawnee ,both engine and airframe sitting at my local airfield
owner not seeming to be interested in rebuilding , probably get it for almost nothing just have to freight
it to US.
If you rebuilt it you would know exactly what you have.
I have no interest in the plane ,if you want more info email me and I will see if I can get the owner contact details for you

Gary


On Sunday, May 30, 2021 at 8:58:20 AM UTC+12, wrote:
On Wednesday, May 26, 2021 at 1:37:37 PM UTC-5, wrote:
My glider club is looking into the possibility of a new or upgraded tow plane. We currently have a 160hp supercub, but we have also looked into a rare-as-hens-teeth piper pawnee. As i poke around barnstormers and trade a plane, i have seen ads for a 190hp vans RV-6, a maule 235, a stinson 200+ hp, motorgliders, cessna 188, etc.

Anyone out there have some ideas for a tow plane that might be very functional but also (perhaps) not well known? Ive seen stories on stinson's maule's and wilga's being used in the past, for example, but it would be good to hear of some currently used "unusual" towplanes.

thanks for any feedback!
Callair 290HP on Wings and Wheels classifieds for 37K.

It is possible (or so I am told) to actually import a Pawnee from Argentina. The paperwork and processing will probably choke the last bit of life out of your club, but it's at least possible.

I have seen (personally) the Callair and know the seller. It's not a pretty airplane but I doubt you'll find one with a better powerplant for the money.

Hi all, These are great ideas and I will be discussing them with the board and membership of the club . If there are more ideas, please keep them coming!

On Sunday, May 30, 2021 at 11:15:08 AM UTC-4, wrote:
Hi all, These are great ideas and I will be discussing them with the board and membership of the club . If there are more ideas, please keep them coming!
What do you think about this? Our club is selling one of our winches, we have two. Our TOST double winch is for sale. It's on a International truck flat bed so it can be driven to location's on the airport.