What skills atrophy first?

"First they forget to zip up their pants.

I've been doing that more and more often, lately. Why the heck is that?

I wouldn't worry about it until you start to forget about *unzipping*.

all the best -- Dan Ford
email: (put Cubdriver in subject line)

The Warbird's Forum www.warbirdforum.com
The Piper Cub Forum www.pipercubforum.com
Viva Bush! blog www.vivabush.org

On 4/17/04 12:52 PM, in article , "G.R.
Patterson III" wrote:



Jim Fisher wrote:

"Cub Driver" wrote in message
A neighbor came over one time, and apropos nothing, she suddenly said:

"First they forget to zip up their pants.

I've been doing that more and more often, lately. Why the heck is that?

In your case, you probably think you're advertising.

George Patterson
This marriage is off to a shaky start. The groom just asked the band to
play "Your cheatin' heart", and the bride just requested "Don't come home
a'drinkin' with lovin' on your mind".

I've met Jim. He is.
--
Jeff 'The Wizard of Draws' Bucchino
Cartoons with a Touch of Magic�
www.wizardofdraws.com
www.cartoonclipart.com

"Teacherjh" wrote in message

The way you put it, the loss of acuity was sudden (it took a month to
adjust).
Was it so?

It wasn't a loss of acuity. Nothing out of focus, details apparent, depth
perception seemed (and tested) OK. The only way I could describe it then,
and now, is that it seemed like the visual information wasn't getting
processed quickly enough. After about a month, either I adjusted or the
problem went away.

"darwin smith" wrote in message news:rnegc.11303

Is there anything that prevents the "challenger" from backing up a few
items in the checklist?

There's always a balance. On the one hand, you want the crew paying
attention. On the other, years of experience have shown that standardized
procedures enhance overall safety by making non-standard circumstances stand
out in bold relief. I don't think having someone jump around in the
checklist would be a good idea. I stopped flying almost ten years ago, so I
don't know what's current now, but one thing some carriers were talking
about was rotating the list reading duty among the crew. I always flew a
three person cockpit, and checklists up through engine start were *always*
read by the F/O, by company policy. I seem to recall that at one carrier
for whom I flew the 747, checklists while taxiing would be read by the F/E,
but I'm not real sure, and I'm not going to run to the basement right now to
look it up.

The only way I could describe it then,
and now, is that it seemed like the visual information wasn't getting
processed quickly enough. After about a month, either I adjusted or the
problem went away.


How did you figure out this was happening? How long did it take to manifest?

Jose

--
(for Email, make the obvious changes in my address)

"Teacherjh" wrote in message

How did you figure out this was happening? How long did it take to
manifest?

Actually, now that I think of it, it probably took a month or so to develop,
and another month to "go away". In the normal course of events, you just
don't make all that many landings in dusky conditions. I just noticed one
evening that during the landing -- not the whole approach, mind you -- I
just felt sort of "out of it", like I wasn't fully connected. I noticed it
again later, on another evening landing. After a few occurrences like this,
I couldn't identify any problem, so I started having the F/O make landings
around dusk, while I just sort of "monitored my senses". After a while, I
was feeling more comfortable with it again, so I resumed, and all continued
fine. I guess the whole cycle covered a couple of months. Never had the
problem since -- of course, as I said, I haven't flown in almost ten years.

On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 01:13:29 GMT, "Michael 182"
wrote:

Flew today for the first time in two months. I'm a 1000 hour pilot, so it's
not as if I'm starting from scratch, but I really felt slow on every
thinking step. Had to refer to checklists to remember all the preflight,

I always have used checklists.

startup, takeoff drills, which made me wonder what I had forgotten on
emergency and other checklists, so I reviewed them in the run up area. Once

It's always a good idea to review the check lists (that is why they
are called check lists)

I got off the ground I was fine, and landings were no problem - probably
muscle memory takes over. So I guess, for me, the thing that atrophies first

Muscle memory atrophies as does any other unused skill.

I have a Math minor. I haven't used any of it since I graduated. No
way could I do a derivative or integral now. It would take weeks of
review to get any where near what I could do when I graduated.

is procedures. Maybe a sign of age...

Maybe and maybe not. Probably not if you are in good health and not
well past retirement age.

I too am a thousand plus.
I have always had the same reaction. If I don't fly for a while, I
feel like I'm along for the ride the first time or two around the
pattern. I felt that way in the Piper Colt way back in 63 and I feel
that way now with the Deb. I could go out and fly a cross country
fine, but it's when things are happening fast, as in the pattern or on
an approach the thinking can easily be overloaded. Remember how
complicated things seemed with those first instrument lessons under
the hood, or flying a STAR for the first time. Yet once you get onto
it, the instrument flying can be easier (for trips) than VFR.

The mind, requires exercise just like any other muscle. Unused skills
such as radio, and instrument which are probably the most intricate
and require the most thought would suffer first. It's normal to
require a short period for adjustment.

It's not the flying part, although I'd not want to have to recover
from a low altitude accelerated stall right off the bat.

ALL skills atrophy. Even the so called, "muscle memory" will atrophy.
Our thinking also atrophies just as muscles. Our routine has grown
rusty as have our responses. Just think of instrument proficiency.
If you fly a lot in the system you are comfortable. Take some time
off and it's time to go back, practice, and take a competency check.
That is required regardless of age.

The results vary and each individual responds... well... in their own
way.

Age can, and will at some point play a part with all of us who last
that long, but there is a huge difference between individuals. There
are those who would be considered elderly that are sharper than some
50 year olds and some in their 50s with the characteristics of the
elderly. Some reach well into their 60s or even 70s before it even
becomes a factor.

It's unlikely age is going to be much of a factor in a healthy 50 year
old. Now days it shouldn't play much of a part until late in the 60s,
but again it varies with every individual.

With increased life spans, better diets, and better health the general
effects of aging on average, probably don't show up until about a
decade later in life than they did for those born in the early and mid
1900s.

Roger( Damn, now where did I put the Ginkgo Biloba?) Halstead
(K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

Michael

On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 12:26:47 -0400, "John Gaquin"
wrote:


"Michael 182" wrote in message

Flew today for the first time in two months. .....I really felt slow on
every
thinking step. Had to refer to checklists.....Once
I got off the ground I was fine, and landings were no problem ....the
thing that atrophies first is procedures. Maybe a sign of age...

snip
The first thing I noted degrading at about age 45 was an element of vision.

I had 20/10 vision in both eyes until around 45. Then things started
getting fuzzy. I was really worried and went to the Doc. His
diagnosis. My vision had started to deteriorate. It was now 20/20. I
was thinking, "My Gawd. The rest of the world sees this badly?"

However as time progressed so did the need for glasses. Bifocals even.
Now my eyes are improving and I no longer need glasses for distance or
even reading the instruments. I do need them for reading the charts
though.

Everything was sharp and clear, but landing in the early evening became
problematic. It wasn't really loss of depth perception, just a sense of
being somehow "disconnected". Daylight and full night were fine, just that

I never had that, except the only time I tried landing after dark with
blended bifocals. I saw three runways. I picked the one in the middle
and threw the glasses in the back seat.

I found I need the plain glass on the lower sides as I land in a
relatively nose high attitude. So, I went back to regular bifocals
with the small near vision piece.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

dusky time was difficult. The medico went on and on about age and eyeballs,
but essentially said that's normal, and I'd adjust. For a month or so I
always arranged for the F/O to make any dusky landings, and by then the Doc
was right, I adjusted. Ho-hum.

It was now 20/20. I
was thinking, "My Gawd. The rest of the world sees this badly?"

I've had 20/20 corrected in my right eye at least since I was in high
school. I married a woman with superlative distance vision (which has
since deterioriated). Happily our daughter got the maternal genes.

One time when I was sailing with Kate, I was watching an osprey feed
her young on a nest in a tree maybe a thousand yards away, through
eight-power binocs. I offered the glasses to Kate, but she shrugged
them off. "If I look through the glasses, the bird will be bigger, but
it won't be any clearer."

That's when I realized what really good vision meant!

all the best -- Dan Ford
email: (put Cubdriver in subject line)

The Warbird's Forum www.warbirdforum.com
The Piper Cub Forum www.pipercubforum.com
Viva Bush! blog www.vivabush.org

"Jim Baker" wrote in
:


"Michael 182" wrote in message
news:Zw%fc.155251$K91.408307@attbi_s02...
Flew today for the first time in two months. I'm a 1000 hour pilot,
so
it's
not as if I'm starting from scratch, but I really felt slow on every
thinking step. Had to refer to checklists to remember all the
preflight, startup, takeoff drills, which made me wonder what I had
forgotten on emergency and other checklists, so I reviewed them in
the run up area.
Once
I got off the ground I was fine, and landings were no problem -
probably muscle memory takes over. So I guess, for me, the thing that
atrophies
first
is procedures. Maybe a sign of age...

Michael

The last time I flew was 6 years ago. I hadn't flown in about 2 years
at that point. Like you, the procedures had gone kaput, but I wasn't
a small airplane, civil pilot anyway so didn't think too much about
that. Like you, I could fly the airplane fine...the CFI "said" he was
impressed since I hadn't flown a small (172SP) airplane since the late
1970's and wanted me to go on...probably more for having a student
than anything else lol. Unlike what CJ posted above though, I didn't
have any problems on the radio, flew a couple of ILS approaches under
the hood and the cross check was fine but the thing that surprised me
the most was not a lack of skill, but interest. After about 5,000
hours of flying, I just had no interest in doing it anymore. I was
surprised, flying had been my life for a long time. But, the fire
just wasn't there anymore and it still isn't. I like to hang around
the newsgroups because so much of my life was tied up in flying, but
I have no desire to go do it anymore. Strange.

JB



I know not of what I speak, since I've only been behind the controls of a
plane twice in my life, but I read an article awile back that the
prescription for your afliction is a flight behind the controls of a
Piper Cub.....

Dunno, but it's probably worth a try :-)

--
ET

(future student pilot and future Sonex builder)


"A common mistake people make when trying to design something
completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete
fools."---- Douglas Adams