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How do I fly this approach?



 
 
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  #1  
Old March 15th 09, 10:34 PM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
Mxsmanic
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Posts: 9,169
Default How do I fly this approach?

Kindly take a look at the ILS runway 26 approach to Astoria (KAST). I tried
to fly this in my sim and I'm not at all sure that I did it correctly.

In my case, this is what I did: I was on V187 from Seattle at 6000. Once I
was within 25 nm of AST, I descended to 4300. About 12 nm away from AST, I
turned roughly north and flew back out to 19 DME from AST, then turned east to
follow the 19 DME arc until I was within a few degrees of the localizer
course. At that point I started a turn towards the localizer and armed the
autopilot, which captured the localizer and glide slope immediately and took
over. About a mile away from the airport I disengaged the AP and flew the
landing by hand.

Was this correct? I'm confused by the references to the NDB and the pointers
towards the east and the procedure turn. Do I have multiple options for this
approach? Was the way I flew it one of them? Or what?

I almost thought that maybe I was supposed to fly to the VOR then outbound to
the NDB then make a procedure turn and come back in. But the DME arc had IAFs
at each end so I finally figured I could just come in towards the VOR then fly
back out to the arc and finally turn towards the airport, which is what I did.
  #2  
Old March 15th 09, 11:42 PM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
Viperdoc[_3_]
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Posts: 167
Default How do I fly this approach?

Why would you fly 12 miles from the VOR and then turn around to go back out
and intercept the 19 DME arc? V187 does not appear to be depicted on the
approach plate. What was the IAF?

Your best answer to this question would be to get a PPL, and then and IR
with a competent instructor, who could easily answer the questions.

Otherwise, why start another ridiculous discourse when you blatantly are
announcing your naivete to the world?



  #3  
Old March 16th 09, 12:08 AM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
Mxsmanic
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Posts: 9,169
Default How do I fly this approach?

Viperdoc writes:

Why would you fly 12 miles from the VOR and then turn around to go back out
and intercept the 19 DME arc? V187 does not appear to be depicted on the
approach plate. What was the IAF?


I was already inside the 19 DME arc while I was still trying to figure out
what to do next. The MSA was 4300, and I saw that the arc was 4000, so I flew
back out to the arc to descend to 4000, since I figured terrain clearance
would be guaranteed along the arc but not elsewhere.

I saw three IAFs, one at the PEN NDB, and two at either end of the DME arc. I
wasn't sure if I was supposed to go all the way to the IAF at the end of the
arc to use it.

V187 isn't marked on approach plates. It's on the en-route charts and
sectionals. AST is on the airway, and I was coming from OLM, also on the
airway.

Your best answer to this question would be to get a PPL, and then and IR
with a competent instructor, who could easily answer the questions.


That would be tremendous overkill, extremely time-consuming and expensive. I
was hoping someone here would be able to help. It's a bit like suggesting
that one become a surgeon in order to learn the effects of aspirin.
  #4  
Old March 16th 09, 12:39 AM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
Beauciphus
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Posts: 65
Default Troll alert

Warning - troll alert.


  #5  
Old March 16th 09, 01:07 AM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
Viperdoc[_3_]
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Posts: 167
Default How do I fly this approach?



That would be tremendous overkill, extremely time-consuming and expensive.
I
was hoping someone here would be able to help. It's a bit like suggesting
that one become a surgeon in order to learn the effects of aspirin.



You seem to forget that the purpose of approach plates is to help do
instrument approaches while flying an airplane. Yes, it can be time
consuming and expensive, but it's the price of actually flying.

Surgeons in general don't use a lot of aspirin, but of course that's another
subject about which you know little.


  #6  
Old March 16th 09, 01:08 AM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
Viperdoc[_3_]
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Posts: 167
Default Troll alert

Yes, here we go again- he will start arguing how people with instrument
ratings that are actually pilots don't know the answers, or he will tell us
why we are wrong.

Anthony is so boringly predictable, yet some do gooder will either defend
him or try to provide an honest answer, and then it's off to the races.


  #7  
Old March 16th 09, 01:26 AM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
Mike Beede
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Posts: 16
Default How do I fly this approach?

In article ,
Mxsmanic wrote:

Was this correct? I'm confused by the references to the NDB and the pointers
towards the east and the procedure turn. Do I have multiple options for this
approach? Was the way I flew it one of them? Or what?


There are three initial approach fixes--the two on the DME arcs
and the NDB. The procedure turn is for the NDB used as the initial
approach fix. The idea is it's close enough to the airport that
you get established outbound on the localizer.

It sounds like, other than using the autopilot (which doesn't
really give you any experience tracking the localizer) you
flew one of the published approaches.

Depending on local radar coverage, you might get vectored to
the localizer, in which case you don't worry about the initial
approach fix.

I'm not current, and I'm not an instructor, so like the other
poster said, don't take this advice if you're actually going
to FLY the approach....

Mike Beede
  #8  
Old March 16th 09, 01:48 PM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
Sam Spade
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Posts: 1,326
Default How do I fly this approach?

Mxsmanic wrote:
Kindly take a look at the ILS runway 26 approach to Astoria (KAST). I tried
to fly this in my sim and I'm not at all sure that I did it correctly.

In my case, this is what I did: I was on V187 from Seattle at 6000. Once I
was within 25 nm of AST, I descended to 4300. About 12 nm away from AST, I
turned roughly north and flew back out to 19 DME from AST, then turned east to
follow the 19 DME arc until I was within a few degrees of the localizer
course. At that point I started a turn towards the localizer and armed the
autopilot, which captured the localizer and glide slope immediately and took
over. About a mile away from the airport I disengaged the AP and flew the
landing by hand.

Was this correct? I'm confused by the references to the NDB and the pointers
towards the east and the procedure turn. Do I have multiple options for this
approach? Was the way I flew it one of them? Or what?

I almost thought that maybe I was supposed to fly to the VOR then outbound to
the NDB then make a procedure turn and come back in. But the DME arc had IAFs
at each end so I finally figured I could just come in towards the VOR then fly
back out to the arc and finally turn towards the airport, which is what I did.



You did it wrong about every way possible. How long have you been
playing real pilot and still don't know the basic rules?

First, by what authority did you descend 700 feet flow the MEA for V-187
simply because you were within 25 miles of AST? The MEA is 5,000 all
the way to AST VOR. That is basic chart reading.

Then, when you turn around at about 12 miles and headed north you
departed protected airspace. At some locations that could kill you but,
of course, not with your MS toy.

The 19 DME arc is available only to non-radar arrivals on on V-27
(R-328) from the northwest or V-27 (R-166) from the south. For any
other arrival the approach begins at AST via the feeder route to KARPEN,
then the procedure turn.

With this one, Anthony, you demonstrate you haven't grasped even the
fundamentals after how many years of ****ing around on this forum.
  #9  
Old March 16th 09, 01:50 PM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
Sam Spade
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Posts: 1,326
Default Troll alert

Viperdoc wrote:

Yes, here we go again- he will start arguing how people with instrument
ratings that are actually pilots don't know the answers, or he will tell us
why we are wrong.

Anthony is so boringly predictable, yet some do gooder will either defend
him or try to provide an honest answer, and then it's off to the races.


It will be difficult for him to rationalize his way out of this one.
  #10  
Old March 16th 09, 07:16 PM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
Mxsmanic
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Posts: 9,169
Default How do I fly this approach?

Sam Spade writes:

You did it wrong about every way possible.


Okay. Please describe the right way ... and provide references.

First, by what authority did you descend 700 feet flow the MEA for V-187
simply because you were within 25 miles of AST? The MEA is 5,000 all
the way to AST VOR. That is basic chart reading.


The plate gives the MSA within a 25-nm radius. Once I was within the 25-nm
radius, I could safely descend to the MSA, and I did so, because it
facilitated entering the approach.

Then, when you turn around at about 12 miles and headed north you
departed protected airspace.


I'm not sure what you mean by protected airspace. Once I was clear of the
Seattle Class B, the rest of the flight was conducted entirely in Class E
airspace, right up to landing.

The 19 DME arc is available only to non-radar arrivals on on V-27
(R-328) from the northwest or V-27 (R-166) from the south. For any
other arrival the approach begins at AST via the feeder route to KARPEN,
then the procedure turn.


Okay. How do you know this? Explain where and how it is documented on the
plate, or where it is documented elsewhere, so that I can look it up.
 




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