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Filament wound airfoils. (again)



 
 
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  #11  
Old June 23rd 11, 11:54 AM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt
Atheist Chaplain[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 29
Default Filament wound airfoils. (again)


"Paul Saccani" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 15 Jun 2011 23:24:01 +1000, "Atheist Chaplain"
wrote:


"Paul Saccani" wrote in message
. ..
On Fri, 10 Jun 2011 23:15:24 +1000, "Atheist Chaplain"
wrote:


"Paul Saccani" wrote in message
m...
On Mon, 6 Jun 2011 19:24:46 +1000, "Atheist Chaplain"
wrote:

why use paper honeycomb, a foam form would be easier to shape
accurately
and
just as light, though filament winding would require a degree of
accuracy
that most homebuilders could not afford.

Indeed.

I did the sums, and it seems that paper honey comb would come out a
good deal lighter. That might be OK for fixed wing, but no good for
rotary, the original application.


interesting, but accuracy in the forms would be my greatest worry,
especially for a lifting surface,
how would they compare ??


It's not really my area, I should imagine it wouldn't be a great
industrial problem. For the homebuilder, I don't think either
technique should be used for making rotors.

considered metal and rivets but early on I came to the conclusion that I
can
put a dent in armour plate so working with thinner materials is a dodgy
prospect :-)

I suppose you are thinking of one of those foam cored canards?


KR2 with foam core wings seems to be a good prospect and having learnt
laying down of glass and resin at high school I do have some experience
with
it :-)


Ah well, have fun.

Fixed or retractable gear?


Probably fixed tricycle to start with.
There was a page on the net by Mark Langford detailing his modified KR2
build and he had some wonderful methods for laying down bubble free glass
skins as well as the use of Carbon fibre for leading edges etc. sadly upon
checking my bookmarks I find it has disappeared

Google is my friend :-)
http://www.n56ml.com/

VollyWobble or what?


not a fan of auto conversions, Jabiru make a couple of reasonably priced 4
and 6 cylinder engines designed for the job.

VH or RAA?


still RAA, not enough disposable income to cross over to VH just yet :-)
If
ever, I don't see a need just yet for carrying any more than one passenger
ATM and RAA registered AC that are for sale are still thick on the ground
at
reasonable prices if I decide to buy.


This is where we have it over the yankees. They have speed
restrictions on LSA, no retractable, fixed pitch airscrews - we've got
much more freedom than they have in this regard.





--
Cheers,
Paul Saccani
Perth, Western Australia.



--
[This comment is no longer available due to a copyright claim by Church of
Scientology International]
"I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. They are so unlike your
Christ"

  #12  
Old June 26th 11, 04:02 AM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt
Atheist Chaplain[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 29
Default Filament wound airfoils. (again)


"Paul Saccani" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 23 Jun 2011 20:54:35 +1000, "Atheist Chaplain"
wrote:


Probably fixed tricycle to start with.
There was a page on the net by Mark Langford detailing his modified KR2
build and he had some wonderful methods for laying down bubble free glass
skins as well as the use of Carbon fibre for leading edges etc. sadly upon
checking my bookmarks I find it has disappeared

Google is my friend :-)
http://www.n56ml.com/


I have to say, I haven't had the best success with those kinds of
materials, myself. Just a matter of lack of familiarity, I suppose,
but I am far more comfortable with metal.

VollyWobble or what?


not a fan of auto conversions, Jabiru make a couple of reasonably priced 4
and 6 cylinder engines designed for the job.


IIRC, the KR2 was designed around the 1600cc volleywobble. The
installation of the Jabiru engine is extremely finicky if you can't
get a FWF kit for your aircraft. The oil sumps on them are also
incredibly small, with a maximum oil consumption rate that can result
in oil exhaustion within hours. A lot of people have had a great deal
of trouble in setting them up so they won't over heat.


Mark Langford uses a corvair in his KR, albeit with a few (known) issues
popping up.
As to Jabs eating oil I have not come across this problem just yet in the
J160 I (semi)regularly fly, and a friend who owns a J230 doesn't seem to
find it a problem and he regularly flies it long distances for his work. I
suppose a modified larger sump could be manufactured if it became a problem
:-)

You can actually get certified VW engines, BTW.

Have you got a set of plans yet?


not just yet, thought after a bit of a surf the other night, I am becoming
more enamoured of the Brumby kits, metal and rivets :-)

--
Cheers,
Paul Saccani
Perth, Western Australia.



--
[This comment is no longer available due to a copyright claim by Church of
Scientology International]
"I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. They are so unlike your
Christ"

  #13  
Old July 2nd 11, 08:20 AM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt
Atheist Chaplain[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 29
Default Filament wound airfoils. (again)


"Paul Saccani" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 26 Jun 2011 13:02:04 +1000, "Atheist Chaplain"
wrote:


"Paul Saccani" wrote in message
. ..
On Thu, 23 Jun 2011 20:54:35 +1000, "Atheist Chaplain"
wrote:


Probably fixed tricycle to start with.
There was a page on the net by Mark Langford detailing his modified KR2
build and he had some wonderful methods for laying down bubble free
glass
skins as well as the use of Carbon fibre for leading edges etc. sadly
upon
checking my bookmarks I find it has disappeared

Google is my friend :-)
http://www.n56ml.com/

I have to say, I haven't had the best success with those kinds of
materials, myself. Just a matter of lack of familiarity, I suppose,
but I am far more comfortable with metal.

VollyWobble or what?


not a fan of auto conversions, Jabiru make a couple of reasonably priced
4
and 6 cylinder engines designed for the job.

IIRC, the KR2 was designed around the 1600cc volleywobble. The
installation of the Jabiru engine is extremely finicky if you can't
get a FWF kit for your aircraft. The oil sumps on them are also
incredibly small, with a maximum oil consumption rate that can result
in oil exhaustion within hours. A lot of people have had a great deal
of trouble in setting them up so they won't over heat.


Mark Langford uses a corvair in his KR, albeit with a few (known) issues
popping up.
As to Jabs eating oil I have not come across this problem just yet in the
J160 I (semi)regularly fly, and a friend who owns a J230 doesn't seem to
find it a problem and he regularly flies it long distances for his work.


Have a read of the J120 flight manual, where it spells out oil
capacity. I think you will be surprised

It is a mystery to me why the capacity is so small.

I've not had any problems with them in the J120 etc... - but the
engine is designed for the aircraft. But if you read the flight
manual, capacity is 2.2 l and with *maximum* observed consumption of
600 ml/hour, I feel disquieted. Naturally, the usual consumption is
way less than that.

For flights of 3 hours or greater, you have to use a separate, higher
mark on the dipstick before commencing flight. As maximum endurance
for the J160 is 13 hours, that's not entirely reassuring.


Bugger, Oh well I usually only fly for an hour or two at a time so I never
noticed, I will ask my mate with the 230, as his is new I assume he just
thinks this is normal.

I
suppose a modified larger sump could be manufactured if it became a
problem
:-)


I'm pretty sure that would not be a trivial exercise on that engine,
IIRC.

You can actually get certified VW engines, BTW.

Have you got a set of plans yet?


not just yet, thought after a bit of a surf the other night, I am becoming
more enamoured of the Brumby kits, metal and rivets :-)


Jeez! That looks like around 60 grand! I doubt that they will sell
you plans, just a kit and assembly instructions. Not that there is
anything wrong with that. Wider than a 172, sounds nice.
--


Locally made as in Cowra, that's only 50 minutes drive from here
:-)

Cheers,
Paul Saccani
Perth, Western Australia.



--
[This comment is no longer available due to a copyright claim by Church of
Scientology International]
"I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. They are so unlike your
Christ"

  #14  
Old July 3rd 11, 11:21 PM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt
Atheist Chaplain[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 29
Default Filament wound airfoils. (again)


"Paul Saccani" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 2 Jul 2011 17:20:36 +1000, "Atheist Chaplain"
wrote:

Jeez! That looks like around 60 grand! I doubt that they will sell
you plans, just a kit and assembly instructions. Not that there is
anything wrong with that. Wider than a 172, sounds nice.
--


Locally made as in Cowra, that's only 50 minutes drive from here


It sounds nice, but you could get a decent used jabie for a lot less.

Just saying...

Or that KR2 in this months Sport Pilot.
--
Cheers,
Paul Saccani
Perth, Western Australia.


The $19k one that's 99% finished :-)
I'm not a fan of the short arse on them, that's why I would probably prefer
to build my own from scratch so I could hang the empennage a bit further
back. Though at that price it is a good buy considering the man hours gone
into it.
Second hand jabs are thick on the ground and the local airport is filling up
with them, I like be a little different :-)
New Sportscruiser would be nice but I would have to sell both my kids
kidneys to get one :-)

--
[This comment is no longer available due to a copyright claim by Church of
Scientology International]
"I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. They are so unlike your
Christ"

  #15  
Old July 4th 11, 12:44 AM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt
Jeff R.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2
Default Filament wound airfoils. (again)


"Atheist Chaplain" wrote in message
...

Second hand jabs are thick on the ground and the local airport is filling
up with them, I like be a little different :-)
New Sportscruiser would be nice but I would have to sell both my kids
kidneys to get one :-)

--
[This comment is no longer available due to a copyright claim by Church of
Scientology International]
"I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. They are so unlike
your Christ"



Would you be prepared to buy into the Zenith CH-701 vs Savannah debate?
I really like the idea of the former with a Continental 0-200.

....or are they a little too agricultural?

Me? I *like* the looks, and definitely prefer a high wing.
....and none of that smelly resin stuff.

--
Jeff R.




  #16  
Old July 4th 11, 10:52 AM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt
Atheist Chaplain[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 29
Default Filament wound airfoils. (again)


"Jeff R." wrote in message
u...

"Atheist Chaplain" wrote in message
...

Second hand jabs are thick on the ground and the local airport is filling
up with them, I like be a little different :-)
New Sportscruiser would be nice but I would have to sell both my kids
kidneys to get one :-)

--
[This comment is no longer available due to a copyright claim by Church
of Scientology International]
"I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. They are so unlike
your Christ"



Would you be prepared to buy into the Zenith CH-701 vs Savannah debate?
I really like the idea of the former with a Continental 0-200.

...or are they a little too agricultural?

Me? I *like* the looks, and definitely prefer a high wing.
...and none of that smelly resin stuff.

--
Jeff R.




:-)
I grew up on that smelly resin stuff, I made quite a few canoes and kayaks
while at High School for the school and a couple on the side for private
consumption :-)
Haven't seen a Savannah or Zenith in the flesh yet but a I hear they fly
well.
As I learnt to fly in a J160 and have also flown a J230 on the odd occasion
I do like high wing AC but, as anyone who has flown a J160 can tell you they
do jump around a bit when its lumpy and in my dotage I would like something
that is a bit more stable and dare I say comfortable :-)
I also like the almost 180 degree vision afforded some of the modern low
wings, and with a few of the "cowboys" (Or as I like to call them "CUBs"
{Cashed Up Bogans}) that are currently training in my area, the sooner I
get to see them coming the better I like it.
Haven't got my head around tail draggers yet either so don't have an opinion
one way or the other.

--
[This comment is no longer available due to a copyright claim by Church of
Scientology International]
"I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. They are so unlike your
Christ"

  #17  
Old July 5th 11, 04:31 AM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt
Jeff R.[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1
Default Filament wound airfoils. (again)

----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Saccani"
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.homebuilt
Sent: Monday, July 04, 2011 8:49 PM
Subject: Filament wound airfoils. (again)


You would be better off with a CH750 if that is your engine of choice.


I thought that too, but they cross the line between
"comfortably-trailerable" and "damn-near-impossible-to-trailer."
Also, their STOL specs are (surprisingly!) a lot poorer than the 701.

Some folks have put 0-200s into 701s with success, so it can be done.
Also, the 750 would come perilously close to GA.

Anyone know of any 701s flying around the Sydney/NSW area?

--
Jeff R.






 




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