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Check your gas.



 
 
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  #41  
Old December 2nd 09, 03:47 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
[email protected]
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Posts: 1,130
Default Check your gas.

On Dec 1, 2:09 pm, "vaughn"
wrote:
"Ken S. Tucker" wrote in ...

Well for small a/c (I'm Cessna 152), I fill my own and
check for water and of course color.
Otherwise, read the meter of the gas input or trust the
fella loading you.


No way! (I suspect Ken is another who flies about as much as Mx) I don't care
if you watched the guy top off your tank and now both guages read full. The
wise pilot still visually checks the fuel level before flight (eyeball, finger,
or dip stick). While you are at it, make sure that both filler caps are on
tight.

Every Flight Manual has a fuel consumption rate graph
as a function of power/rpm/cruising speed, so at flight
planning, a time and range can be estimated that does
not rely on the fuel gauge, which is accurate to +/- 10%.


I would LOVE to have a Cessna with a fuel guage that was accurate to +/- 10%.
On every Cessna I have ever flown, the fuel guages were best described as
semi-usless crap. Do I look at them? Yes; because in-flight they are your only
direct evidence of remaining fuel. Do I trust them? No!

So a cross check of a wrist watch with the fuel gauge
is a no-brainer.



Cessna's gauges are maybe within 20% if they're working at
all. Many of them are out of calibration when we work on them.
They're supposed to read Empty when the level is down to the unuseable
fuel level, but sometimes they're reading empty long before that. And
some won't reach the full mark even when the tanks are full. And
there's isn't a lot you can do to fix such problems aside from bending
the float wire a bit. And some floats develop leaks that make them
ride lower in the fuel and eventually sink. If the float wire stop
tabs aren't set properly the float will tap on the tank's top or
bottom and get a hole worn in it.

Dead gauges are illegal. They're not a deferreable item as some
other instruments are. There's a common misconception that they only
have to read Empty when the tank is empty, so dead gauges are OK. But
if you read the law as it's written, they must be working.

Any properly trained pilot knows that you must dip the tanks with
a calibrated dipstick before flight. Trusting the fuel delivery guy is
making the assumption that you had a certain level before filling. And
the dipstick must be calibrated to read empty when the tanks still
contain the unuseable fuel specified in the TCDS. Unuseable fuel is
more than the fuel in the lines or whatever; it's the fuel that won't
reach the tank outlet when the aircraft might be very nose-low (full-
flap approach) or in a Vx climb. Many outlets are halfway back along
the length of the tank, and all are above the bottom a bit so that
dirt and water doesn't get into the system. If your dipstick thinks
the bottom of the tank means empty, it's inaccurate. A dead engine on
approach is the usual, eventual result.

POH fuel consumption figures are predicated on aggressive
leaning. Few PPL's I've encountered do that, so the engine is using
more than they think. And how many know how much fuel the thing is
using in the climb? It's a lot more than cruise figures.

As for the most common causes of engine failure, fuel starvation
is the second most common. Carburetor ice is the most common, by a
wide margin. There's far too little training given on the phenomenon.

Dan
  #42  
Old December 2nd 09, 03:50 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
a[_3_]
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Posts: 562
Default Check your gas.

On Dec 1, 7:03*pm, Mark wrote:
On Dec 1, 1:16*pm, Jeffrey Bloss wrote:

On Mon, 30 Nov 2009 17:00:51 -0800 (PST), Mark wrote:
That's what happened to a Beech King Air turbo a
couple of weeks ago near me. Ran out of gas, for
as yet undetermined reasons.


Uh, lessee, engine burn?


No Blossom, they took off, and within
minutes tried to make it back but failed.
The fuel issue is under investigation.

Also, you know how you use the
little...."LOL" thing in EVERY one of
your posts? Thought you might need
to know it makes you look like a
nutcase.

You're welcome.

---
Mark


Mark, why do you object to him labeling himself "loser on line"?
  #43  
Old December 2nd 09, 11:39 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Flaps_50!
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 117
Default Check your gas.

On Dec 2, 6:08*am, " wrote:
On Nov 30, 9:02*pm, "Flaps_50!" wrote:

if the pilot practices his
emergency procedures regularly.


Since you allegedly fly a plane, when was the last time you practiced
your emergency procedures OUTSIDE a simulator?


3 weeks ago. I don't sim -although that might save me $$ -unless I
were to pay to use a full cockpit 737 sim!

How often do you practice OUTSIDE a simulator to define regularly?
Once a day, once a month, once a year?


About every 2 months. What about you?

Very direct questions above. *Can you give me direct answers?


If you are trying to 'prove' I don't fly real planes you should just
give up.

Cheers
  #44  
Old December 2nd 09, 11:47 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Flaps_50!
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 117
Default Check your gas.

On Dec 2, 7:13*am, Jeffrey Bloss wrote:
On Mon, 30 Nov 2009 19:21:46 -0800 (PST), Flaps_50! wrote:
I agree that removing the engine might reduce the probability of a
mechanical failure,


LOL

What does a mechanical failure on a sim have to do with this thread?


I've got me a fanboi! Now tell is all what sim is best to run on your
install of Ubuntu.

Bwhahahhahaha!
  #45  
Old December 2nd 09, 01:13 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Flaps_50!
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 117
Default Check your gas.

On Dec 2, 9:32*am, "vaughn"
wrote:
"Flaps_50!" wrote in message

...

Seems like glider piloting is a problem (it can't be the iron fairy)
or is there another cause?


* Measuring accidents on the basis of flight hours does not necessarily give you
the whole picture. * If you had ever spent much time at a glider training
operation, you *would quickly see part of the difference between power training
and glider training, and how the statistics can get skewed when you only look at
flight hours. *Glider primary training flights tend to be so short that students
traditionally count "flights" rather than "hours". *With gliders or airplanes,
accidents happen overwhelmingly on takeoff or landing. * As it turns out, glider
students spend a greater percentage of their flight time in those two
(statistically more dangerous) phases of flight.

I see. Thanks.
About how many take off and landings does a student do before first
solo? In a powered plane you do about 4 /flight hour in that phase
(looking at my log book). My 3 hours solo consolidation logged 17 take
off and landings. Is that very different to gliders?
Cheers
Cheers

  #46  
Old December 2nd 09, 07:20 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Mark
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 815
Default Check your gas.

On Dec 2, 9:16*am, Jeffrey Bloss wrote:
On Tue, 1 Dec 2009 16:03:18 -0800 (PST), Mark wrote:
On Dec 1, 1:16*pm, Jeffrey Bloss wrote:
On Mon, 30 Nov 2009 17:00:51 -0800 (PST), Mark wrote:
That's what happened to a Beech King Air turbo a
couple of weeks ago near me. Ran out of gas, for
as yet undetermined reasons.


Uh, lessee, engine burn?


No Blossom, they took off, and within
minutes tried to make it back but failed.
The fuel issue is under investigation.


Hi, I see your killfile is broken as well along with your ability to
comprehend. When did Beech KAs not burn fuel?


Duh! When there was none to burn.


snicker

Also, you know how you use the
little...."LOL" thing in EVERY one of
your posts? Thought you might need
to know it makes you look like a
nutcase.


You're welcome.


---
Mark


Thanks.

LOL

I'm an asshole but I feel in the Xmas mood so.............

I have some helpful information for you.

There are exactly two categories of people who might read any article
I post. The first group comprises those who know I'm a liar, a
plagiarist, a fraud and an idiot.


I thought we were going to talk about me.
Why must everything be about you?

My lies and incoherent nonsense just give the first group an
opportunity to laugh at me,


You're babbling at the mirror again.

You should do like me. Read, and listen.
If you accidently mispeak and get corrected,
which I've not done yet, but when I do...
I don't mind saying, "thanks friend".

and any of the second group who see that
crap will immediately migrate to the first.


So we're back to talking about you again.
Here's a thought... let us talk about
airplanes, and you go far away.

If you want to maintain as good an image as possible, your best

bet?

Oh, so you have image advice for ME?

Shut the **** up.


"How's that workin' out for ya?"- Dr.Phil

---
Mark



  #47  
Old December 2nd 09, 07:33 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Mark
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 815
Default Check your gas.

On Dec 1, 9:50*pm, a wrote:
On Dec 1, 7:03*pm, Mark wrote:





On Dec 1, 1:16*pm, Jeffrey Bloss wrote:


On Mon, 30 Nov 2009 17:00:51 -0800 (PST), Mark wrote:
That's what happened to a Beech King Air turbo a
couple of weeks ago near me. Ran out of gas, for
as yet undetermined reasons.


Uh, lessee, engine burn?


No Blossom, they took off, and within
minutes tried to make it back but failed.
The fuel issue is under investigation.


Also, you know how you use the
little...."LOL" thing in EVERY one of
your posts? Thought you might need
to know it makes you look like a
nutcase.


You're welcome.


---
Mark


Mark, why do you object to him labeling himself "loser on line"?


Oh, thanks friend. My mistake. I thought he
was a lunatic implying laughter in any and
every message, irrespective of content or
relevance.

---
Mark

  #48  
Old December 2nd 09, 07:54 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
a[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 562
Default Check your gas.

On Dec 2, 1:33*pm, Mark wrote:
On Dec 1, 9:50*pm, a wrote:





On Dec 1, 7:03*pm, Mark wrote:


On Dec 1, 1:16*pm, Jeffrey Bloss wrote:


On Mon, 30 Nov 2009 17:00:51 -0800 (PST), Mark wrote:
That's what happened to a Beech King Air turbo a
couple of weeks ago near me. Ran out of gas, for
as yet undetermined reasons.


Uh, lessee, engine burn?


No Blossom, they took off, and within
minutes tried to make it back but failed.
The fuel issue is under investigation.


Also, you know how you use the
little...."LOL" thing in EVERY one of
your posts? Thought you might need
to know it makes you look like a
nutcase.


You're welcome.


---
Mark


Mark, why do you object to him labeling himself "loser on line"?


Oh, thanks friend. My mistake. I thought he
was a lunatic implying laughter in any and
every message, irrespective of content or
relevance.

---
Mark


Mark, I think both interpretations are correct. The thought was, we
could resort to peer review to figure out which was a better fit, but
who other than sock puppets would choose to admit being a peer to JB?
A better model would be to think of him on a dissecting table, trying
to figure out if there was a physical abnormality that was linked to
the psychological one(s).

Hmm. "Operation hell, I thought it was an autopsy!"
  #49  
Old December 2nd 09, 10:58 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
[email protected]
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Posts: 1,130
Default Check your gas.

On Dec 2, 7:14 am, Jeffrey Bloss wrote:
On Tue, 1 Dec 2009 18:47:43 -0800 (PST),
wrote:


As for the most common causes of engine failure, fuel starvation
is the second most common. Carburetor ice is the most common, by a
wide margin. There's far too little training given on the phenomenon.


Dan


What training I received was mainly about how to detect it not how to
prevent it, what conditions, what cloud formations, etc etc...that all
became self-help and assistance from other pilots.


And here's classic proof that the training and understanding is
deficient: That carb ice occurs only in or around clouds.

Carb ice is a threat anytime there's enough humidity and the
temperature is below 100°F. It can occur on a warm summer day. It can
occur on a cool day. It can occur on winter days when the temperature
is around 0°F. Water can exist as a liquid down to -20°C (-6°F? or
so?). The key is the distance between temperature and dewpoint: the
closer they are, the larger the likelyhood of carb ice. Checking temp
and dewpoint should be mandatory before flight but that sort of
training is rare.

And then we hear of accidents where the RPM was dropping so the
pilot pulled the carb heat, buit them the engine ran rough so they
pushed it off again. So the engine iced up and quit. Carb ice melts
into water when it's heated, and the engine runs sorta rough on water,
see, so you need to leave that carb heat on until things sort
themselves out. Sometimes the ice develops to the point that the power
drops off so far that there's no more heat in the exhaust and so no
carb heat. The airplane is doomed at that point.

The mechanics of carb ice are too little understood. The venturi
causes a pressure drop in the carb, which causes a temperature drop.
The fuel vaporizing in the carb throat absorbs heat from the air as it
evaporates, cooling things even further. The temp drop can be as large
as 70°F; add that to the freezing point of 32, and we get 102°.

Googling "carburetor ice" brings up lots of good stuff.

Dan

Dan


  #50  
Old December 3rd 09, 12:28 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Mark
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 815
Default Check your gas.

On Dec 2, 6:03*pm, Jeffrey Bloss wrote:

Oh, so you have image advice for ME?


Sure do. Your image is of an Assclown who got his assclown-ass ignored
because, well guess what, because everyone knows you're an assclown.


I think the people here (except you) are
quite nice, and I have no complaints. Most
of the posts are informative and appreciated,
and my experience here has been a pleasure.

And you...

Not only do I not know what you're talking
about, it's obvious to us all, that you don't
either.

---
Mark




 




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