JSF and close air support

"Harry Andreas" wrote in message
...
In article , "Tarver Engineering"
wrote:

"Harry Andreas" wrote in message
...

Keep that basket small. If your system has enough bandwidth you can
update
the weapon all the way to the target and at the terminal point it's
within
the
CEP of the blast effect for the particular weapon you've selected.
Obviously the 2000lb JDAM requires less bandwidth for a given target.
Also obviously the performance of your SAR, GPS receiver, and datalink
are
crucial.

So far the GPS/Data link combination has performed at less than expected
levels. I havn't seen anything good about the Navy plan to replace
TACAN
with GPS/Data link and FAA just killed the LAAS landing system.

The JSF GPS receiver is significantly better than anything else on the
market.
We'll be delivering the first EMD in September.

Google JPALS.

http://www.ainonline.com/issues/06_0...electsp94.html

As you can see by reading the URL, other differential GPS systems have happy
press releases, while often producing less than adaquate results.

For military style systems, the binary satellite provides 0.2 meter accuracy
without augmentation in the longitudinal reference frame. Altitude may
altentaively be resolved using the TWAS data base and thereby eliminates the
error WGS-84 error documented in RTCA DO-208 change 3. UPSAT has
demonstrated same with the CNX-80 using civil codes, optional improvement
for WAAS augmentation shows only a small advantage. (VNAV)

"Tarver Engineering" wrote ...

As the rest of the thread up to this point indicates, there is a desire to
redirect a GPS guided munition post launch. The means to reprogram the
munition would require some data link.

Actually, data link is NOT a hard requirement. There have been several
initiatives in work for many years on autonomous terminal seekers -- TLAM is
one
significant example, though it may not have used GPS. I worked with some
relevant JSOW (then AIWS) P3I proposals at TI and a couple other places back
in
'90 and '91.

Irrelevent.

GPS with FOG does all that already.

I see... In your fantasy world, TLAM and JSOW are "irrelevant" in the context
of GPS guided weapons with terminal seekers, and so is the funded research in
the JSOW Preplanned Product Improvement program...

What current weapon[s] use[s] "GPS with FOG" and "does all that already"?

BTW, what is your definition of FOG in context? The gnomes at China Lake
couldn't make FOG-S (Fiber Optic Guided Skipper) work well enough for
operational use after many years of pork-barrel supported work...

"John R Weiss" wrote in message
...
"Tarver Engineering" wrote ...

As the rest of the thread up to this point indicates, there is a
desire to
redirect a GPS guided munition post launch. The means to reprogram
the
munition would require some data link.

Actually, data link is NOT a hard requirement. There have been several
initiatives in work for many years on autonomous terminal seekers --
TLAM is
one
significant example, though it may not have used GPS. I worked with
some
relevant JSOW (then AIWS) P3I proposals at TI and a couple other places
back
in
'90 and '91.

Irrelevent.

GPS with FOG does all that already.

I see... In your fantasy world, TLAM and JSOW are "irrelevant" in the
context
of GPS guided weapons with terminal seekers, and so is the funded research
in
the JSOW Preplanned Product Improvement program...

What current weapon[s] use[s] "GPS with FOG" and "does all that already"?

BTW, what is your definition of FOG in context? The gnomes at China Lake
couldn't make FOG-S (Fiber Optic Guided Skipper) work well enough for
operational use after many years of pork-barrel supported work...

Fibre Optic Gyro.

"Tarver Engineering" wrote...

As the rest of the thread up to this point indicates, there is a desire to
redirect a GPS guided munition post launch. The means to reprogram
the munition would require some data link.

Actually, data link is NOT a hard requirement. There have been several
initiatives in work for many years on autonomous terminal seekers -- TLAM
is
one significant example, though it may not have used GPS. I worked with
some
relevant JSOW (then AIWS) P3I proposals at TI and a couple other places
back in '90 and '91.

Irrelevent.

GPS with FOG does all that already.

Fibre Optic Gyro.

GPS with a gyro of any kind does not make for post-launch reprogramming or
retargeting of the weapon.

"John R Weiss" wrote in message
...
"Tarver Engineering" wrote...

As the rest of the thread up to this point indicates, there is a
desire to
redirect a GPS guided munition post launch. The means to reprogram
the munition would require some data link.

Actually, data link is NOT a hard requirement. There have been
several
initiatives in work for many years on autonomous terminal seekers --
TLAM
is
one significant example, though it may not have used GPS. I worked
with
some
relevant JSOW (then AIWS) P3I proposals at TI and a couple other
places
back in '90 and '91.

Irrelevent.

GPS with FOG does all that already.

Fibre Optic Gyro.

GPS with a gyro of any kind does not make for post-launch reprogramming or
retargeting of the weapon.

That is true.

"John R Weiss" wrote
"Tarver Engineering" wrote...

As the rest of the thread up to this point indicates, there is a
desire to
redirect a GPS guided munition post launch. The means to reprogram
the munition would require some data link.

Actually, data link is NOT a hard requirement. There have been
several
initiatives in work for many years on autonomous terminal seekers --
TLAM
is
one significant example, though it may not have used GPS. I worked
with
some
relevant JSOW (then AIWS) P3I proposals at TI and a couple other
places
back in '90 and '91.

Irrelevent.

GPS with FOG does all that already.

Fibre Optic Gyro.

GPS with a gyro of any kind does not make for post-launch reprogramming or
retargeting of the weapon.

AMSTE (Affordable Moving Surface Target Engagement) uses a post-release data
link to compensate for the long time of flight of the ballistic weapon used
(JDAM). The current AMSTE test series has demonstrated fair success against
soft targets using JDAM unaided by an imager. An imaging seeker is planned
for use against hard targets like armor. The DAMASK (Direct Attack Munition
Affordable Seeker) imaging seeker is one of the candidates to serve in that
role.

In order to make the DAMASK seeker affordable (a key parameter in the
JDAM-related electronics), several performance parameters were kept modest.
Because the intended application (JDAM) has a small, 10m CEP, the IR Seeker
doesn't need either a wide FOV or high resolution.

If a higher performance IR seeker were used, allowing lock-on prior to
release, then yes a data link would not be needed. But you don't have an
"affordable" weapon then. But the USAF has gotten religion on the
affordability of weapons and within that family, cost is an equal priority
with performance.

"Paul F Austin" wrote in message
. ..

"John R Weiss" wrote
"Tarver Engineering" wrote...

As the rest of the thread up to this point indicates, there is a
desire to
redirect a GPS guided munition post launch. The means to
reprogram
the munition would require some data link.

Actually, data link is NOT a hard requirement. There have been
several
initiatives in work for many years on autonomous terminal
seekers --
TLAM
is
one significant example, though it may not have used GPS. I worked
with
some
relevant JSOW (then AIWS) P3I proposals at TI and a couple other
places
back in '90 and '91.

Irrelevent.

GPS with FOG does all that already.

Fibre Optic Gyro.

GPS with a gyro of any kind does not make for post-launch reprogramming
or
retargeting of the weapon.

AMSTE (Affordable Moving Surface Target Engagement) uses a post-release
data
link to compensate for the long time of flight of the ballistic weapon
used
(JDAM).

We already discussed that and Weiss just wanted to argue.

"Tarver Engineering" wrote...
"Tarver Engineering" wrote...

As the rest of the thread up to this point indicates, there is a desire to
redirect a GPS guided munition post launch. The means to reprogram
the munition would require some data link.

Irrelevent.

GPS with FOG does all that already.

Fibre Optic Gyro.

AMSTE (Affordable Moving Surface Target Engagement) uses a post-release data
link to compensate for the long time of flight of the ballistic weapon used
(JDAM).

We already discussed that and Weiss just wanted to argue.

Actually I wanted to debunk your inaccurate claims regarding a "require[d]" data
link and some "GPS with FOG" system that "does all that already."

While data link is one method to accomplish the mission, there are other methods
in development, and have been for many years.

From Paul's description of the current state of AMSTE, it does not appear to yet
be ready for deployment in a CAS scenario. Maybe it will get there; maybe not.
Maybe we will have to spend the $$ for a true autonomous terminal seeker for
those situations where risk to the troops is too high for non-terminally-guided
weapons and/or data link is not an option.

"John R Weiss" wrote in message
...
"Tarver Engineering" wrote...
"Tarver Engineering" wrote...

As the rest of the thread up to this point indicates, there is a
desire to
redirect a GPS guided munition post launch. The means to reprogram
the munition would require some data link.

Irrelevent.

GPS with FOG does all that already.

Fibre Optic Gyro.

AMSTE (Affordable Moving Surface Target Engagement) uses a post-release
data
link to compensate for the long time of flight of the ballistic weapon
used
(JDAM).

We already discussed that and Weiss just wanted to argue.

Actually I wanted to debunk your inaccurate claims regarding a
"require[d]" data
link and some "GPS with FOG" system that "does all that already."

You just made up what you wrote, so just calm down and shut up.

While data link is one method to accomplish the mission, there are other methods
in development, and have been for many years.

Can you be any more vague? Try limiting your posts to just one or two verifyable facts and fill the rest with the fog of
uncertainty.

--
Venik
www.aeronautics.ru


"John R Weiss" wrote in message ...
"Tarver Engineering" wrote...
"Tarver Engineering" wrote...

As the rest of the thread up to this point indicates, there is a desire to
redirect a GPS guided munition post launch. The means to reprogram
the munition would require some data link.

Irrelevent.

GPS with FOG does all that already.

Fibre Optic Gyro.

AMSTE (Affordable Moving Surface Target Engagement) uses a post-release data
link to compensate for the long time of flight of the ballistic weapon used
(JDAM).

We already discussed that and Weiss just wanted to argue.

Actually I wanted to debunk your inaccurate claims regarding a "require[d]" data
link and some "GPS with FOG" system that "does all that already."

While data link is one method to accomplish the mission, there are other methods
in development, and have been for many years.

From Paul's description of the current state of AMSTE, it does not appear to yet
be ready for deployment in a CAS scenario. Maybe it will get there; maybe not.
Maybe we will have to spend the $$ for a true autonomous terminal seeker for
those situations where risk to the troops is too high for non-terminally-guided
weapons and/or data link is not an option.