Emergency Descents with ATC COMS - Video

a wrote
I'm wondering why the 60 degree bank 30 degree pitch requirement of a
'chute for all occupants doesn't apply?

Because there was no one else on board except for a crewmember.

(c) Unless each occupant of the aircraft is wearing an approved
parachute, no pilot of a civil aircraft carrying any person (other than
a crewmember) may execute any intentional maneuver that exceeds—

(1) A bank of 60 degrees relative to the horizon; or

(2) A nose-up or nose-down attitude of 30 degrees relative to the
horizon.

(d) Paragraph (c) of this section does not apply to—

(1) Flight tests for pilot certification or rating; or

(2) Spins and other flight maneuvers required by the regulations for any
certificate or rating when given by—

(i) A certificated flight instructor;

If you do not have a copy of the U.S. Aviation Regulations, they can be
found he

http://www.landings.com/evird.acgi$pass*58994814!_h-www.landings.com/
_landings/pages/regulations.html

Bob Moore

On Aug 23, 2:52*pm, Robert Moore wrote:
a wrote

I'm wondering why the *60 degree bank 30 degree pitch requirement of a
'chute for all occupants doesn't apply?

Because there was no one else on board except for a crewmember.

(c) Unless each occupant of the aircraft is wearing an approved
parachute, no pilot of a civil aircraft carrying any person (other than
a crewmember) may execute any intentional maneuver that exceeds—

(1) A bank of 60 degrees relative to the horizon; or

(2) A nose-up or nose-down attitude of 30 degrees relative to the
horizon.

(d) Paragraph (c) of this section does not apply to—

(1) Flight tests for pilot certification or rating; or

(2) Spins and other flight maneuvers required by the regulations for any
certificate or rating when given by—

(i) A certificated flight instructor;

If you do not have a copy of the U.S. Aviation Regulations, they can be
found he

http://www.landings.com/evird.acgi$pass*58994814!_h-www.landings.com/
_landings/pages/regulations.html

Bob Moore

Thanks. The part I read did not have the parans excluding crew
members. It's a non issue for me, My m20J does not (intentionally) see
anything like those pitch and bank limits.

I still maintain the fastest way down is a strong slip. As somone
mentioned, for non preasurized airplanes, the most likely need to get
down fast is a fire, and a slip may keep the flames away from the
cabin. Mooney's slip really well but losing energy while flying
coordinated is a chore -- come in hot for a landing and you'll float
forever. I''ll have to try a turn while slipping sometime although a
turn into the low wing side makes it a little more coordinated and I
would be reluctant to try to turn into my blind (high wing) side.

On Aug 23, 8:17*am, Robert Moore wrote:

Jeeze...damn amateurs.......

Jeeze...grumpy, retired, ex-military, old men.......lighten up. Your experience and knowlege is very valuable here, but it would be much more well received with some grace and kindness.

Bob Moore

P-3B

P-3, huh? I am cutting my A&P teeth on a rehab of a P-3, which is what
my company does. My first P-3 is about to take it's maiden flight
after a 3 year rebuild, and after we get all the tank leaks sealed
(again).

Ricky

Ricky wrote

Jeeze...grumpy, retired, ex-military, old men.......lighten up. Your
experience and knowlege is very valuable here, but it would be much more
well received with some grace and kindness.

When someone "preaches" as much BS as Flaps_50! did in his post, someone
needs to call it BS in no uncertain terms.

If Flaps_50! wants to instruct pilots, maybe he should study some more
himself.

Bob Moore
CFIing since 1970

On Aug 26, 2:27*am, Robert Moore wrote:
Ricky wrote



Jeeze...grumpy, retired, ex-military, old men.......lighten up. Your
experience and knowlege is very valuable here, but it would be much more
well received with some grace and kindness.

When someone "preaches" as much BS as Flaps_50! did in his post, someone
needs to call it BS in no uncertain terms.


Ah, I see YOU say BS 'cos you think the newsgroup is american. LOL

Cheers

On Aug 25, 9:12*am, Ricky wrote:
On Aug 23, 8:17*am, Robert Moore wrote:

Jeeze...damn amateurs.......
Jeeze...grumpy, retired, ex-military, old men.......lighten up. Your experience and knowlege is very valuable here, but it would be much more well received with some grace and kindness.
Bob Moore
P-3B

P-3, huh? I am cutting my A&P teeth on a rehab of a P-3, which is what
my company does. My first P-3 is about to take it's maiden flight
after a 3 year rebuild, and after we get all the tank leaks sealed
(again).

Ricky

The M20J is a wet wing tank sealed with something that was found to
like to disolve in what ever is added to 100 octane low lead. We had
to fix the leaks a couple of times in an early M20J, I expect the
problem has been solved a long time ago. What is the nature of the
leaks your P-3 has: inital sealant a little better than bubble gum?

On Aug 25, 7:36*am, a wrote:
On Aug 25, 9:12*am, Ricky wrote:

On Aug 23, 8:17*am, Robert Moore wrote:

Jeeze...damn amateurs.......
Jeeze...grumpy, retired, ex-military, old men.......lighten up. Your experience and knowlege is very valuable here, but it would be much more well received with some grace and kindness.
Bob Moore
P-3B

P-3, huh? I am cutting my A&P teeth on a rehab of a P-3, which is what
my company does. My first P-3 is about to take it's maiden flight
after a 3 year rebuild, and after we get all the tank leaks sealed
(again).

Ricky

The M20J is a wet wing tank sealed with something that was found to
like to disolve in what ever is added to 100 octane low lead. We had
to fix the leaks a couple of times in an early M20J, I expect the
problem has been solved a long time ago. What is the nature of the
leaks your P-3 has: inital sealant a little better than bubble gum?

Well, you may know the P-3 is a wet-wing also, with a wet belly tank,
too, just behind the bomb bay. The sealing procedure is very, very
extensive after all external and internal reapairs & work have been
done on the wings and belly. Every single Hi-Lok, rivet, Cherry-Max,
bolt, screw, plank, doubler, tripler, etc, etc. is a potential leak.
So, there are literally hundreds, perhaps thousands, of potential
escape routes for the Jet-A. The sealant we use is fine, great,
actually, but with so many potential leaks, it is simply impossible to
aassure the sealant job is leak-proof in every single place.
We pressurised the tanks for the first time 2 weeks ago & there were
several leaks, albeit small ones. This means we must find the leak,
then do a re-sealant job to that area. After two weeks we finally have
almost 100% integrity with the fuel tanks. We have started engine runs/
testing and the plane will go to the paint shop soon, then back into
service until the ancient (but wonderful) bird is retired or replaced
by 737s.

Ricky

On Aug 24, 1:17*am, Robert Moore wrote:
"Flaps_50!" wrote

You were conducting aerobatic flight.

TRUE

Breaking the law is one thing

IN WHAT RESPECT

but are you certified for aerobatics?

PILOTS DON'T HAVE TO BE CERTIFIED FOR AEROBATICS in the USofA

What about your aircraft?

When properly equipped, the B23 and C23 are approved for limited
aerobatics. (Wikipedia)

And was it equipped and what are those limits?


This could get you killed.

Normal takeoffs and landings kill a lot of pilots.


Not intentionally.

Let me remind you that aerobatics are maneuvers
outside those required for "normal" flight FAR 91.303.

LET ME REMIND YOU.... that the Sundowner is approved for Spins.

Irrelevant. That's not the point and you know it.

Google "Beechcraft Sundowner Spins" and you will find a reference
to "The Light Airplane Pilot's Guide to Stall/Spin Awareness By Rich
Stowell". I would suggest that you read the paragraphs on the following
web page.http://books.google.com/books?id=i8r...A304&lpg=PA304
&dq=Spins+in+sundowner&source=bl&ots=u0xxM-hDbY&sig=r8g_VtQN_AjTS8Cql-
tWtg0geRo&hl=en&ei=KD2RSo_BKoH8tge9p6TPBA&sa=X&oi= book_result&ct=result&
resnum=10#v=onepage&q=&f=false

Jeeze...damn amateurs.......

Bob Moore
ATP B-727, B-707, L-188
USN S-2F , P-2V , P-3B
Flight Instructor ASE-I
PanAm (retired)

Jeez is that supposed to impress me or is it the PanAm (retired) bit?
Look up "appeal to authority" as a logical fallacy.

Cheers

I was taught a steep spiral for getting down really fast in a very
small area.

I don't have the Sundowner POH but I just checked my Musketeer
POH - 2.9, Maneuver Limits: Bank Angles no more than 60 deg.

Of course on the following page there's the remark
"Minimum flight crew: One (1) pilot"

On Aug 23, 10:49*am, Blanche wrote:
I was taught a steep spiral for getting down really fast in a very
small area.

I don't have the Sundowner POH but I just checked my Musketeer
POH - 2.9, Maneuver Limits: Bank Angles no more than 60 deg.

Of course on the following page there's the remark
"Minimum flight crew: One (1) pilot"

In my plane it's placarded allowed commercial maneuvers (Chandelles,
lazy eights come to mind). I do need to check the POH.to double
check the bank limitations, but I don't remember seeing such a
limitation. VNE is 152 knots.

I do remember seeing the same remark minimum flight crew of one
pilot. I guess that is the legalese way of saying that a pre-solo
student can't fly the plane solo legally LOL