LS3a oxygen cylinder specification

At 15:26 06 December 2019, Eric Greenwell wrote:
wrote on 12/6/2019 6:52 AM:
If it was any cylinder except the steel one you have, I would just say
bite the bullet and replace it with a new aluminum cylinder.
Unfortunately,
the receptacle in the LS-3 ONLY accepts that particular size, and they
are
difficult to find. The aluminum equivalent is too large in diameter to
fit
in the mount socket, and modifying the 'glass is a difficult job that
brings its own problems with getting approval for the change. Where are
you
located? I might be able to direct you to a hydrotest facility that won't
make you jump through flaming hoops. (Never a good idea with an O2
cylinder
:-)

Expensive, perhaps, but can a cylinder that fits be purchased from
Europe?
In one
of my older gliders, a medical bottle would barely fit, but it did go in.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email
me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"

https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1

Hello Ian,

Navboys in the UK sell a bottle that fits,

https://www.navboys.com/3L_Steel_100..._Cylinder.html

Got one a couple of months ago when I bought my LS3-17.

Out of interest, how do you secure the bottle from sliding forward?

Cheers

Ian Kennedy

On Tuesday, December 3, 2019 at 3:33:48 AM UTC-7, ian wrote:
I am trying to get my oxygen cylinder inspected for refilling. It is due
for a hydro test and inspection. However there has been a shake up of
cylinder inspections in the local dive industry and as a result the
inspector is checking all the paperwork very thoroughly. Unfortunately
he cannot identify the manufacture specification from the markings on
the cylinder, which is a bit of an issue.

The cylinder was supplied by Rolladen Schneider, with my LS3a, when it
was delivered new. It is a steel 4l cylinder, manufactured in Germany in
1979 that fits exactly into the molded O2 cylinder recess in the glider.
Does anybody know what the applicable manufacturing specification would
been at that time?

Thanks

Ian

On Tuesday, December 3, 2019 at 3:33:48 AM UTC-7, ian wrote:
I am trying to get my oxygen cylinder inspected for refilling. It is due
for a hydro test and inspection. However there has been a shake up of
cylinder inspections in the local dive industry and as a result the
inspector is checking all the paperwork very thoroughly. Unfortunately
he cannot identify the manufacture specification from the markings on
the cylinder, which is a bit of an issue.

The cylinder was supplied by Rolladen Schneider, with my LS3a, when it
was delivered new. It is a steel 4l cylinder, manufactured in Germany in
1979 that fits exactly into the molded O2 cylinder recess in the glider.
Does anybody know what the applicable manufacturing specification would
been at that time?

Thanks

Ian

This Summer I went down to the local welding/medical supply business in town and inquired about steel O2 bottles. They had a couple in the back that fit perfectly in my LS3. For about $65 they put on a new valve, did a hydro test and filled it with O2. They were happy to get rid of it.

On Friday, December 6, 2019 at 8:40:32 PM UTC-8, wrote:

This Summer I went down to the local welding/medical supply business in town and inquired about steel O2 bottles. They had a couple in the back that fit perfectly in my LS3. For about $65 they put on a new valve, did a hydro test and filled it with O2. They were happy to get rid of it.

The steel E cylinder was the standard medical cylinder. I've swapped "out of hydro" E cylinders at a local supplier. They did the same, swapping the medical valve for my CGA540 while I waited. Think it was $18 at the time.
But those cylinders are getting rare.
AL-682 is the E equivalent, but slightly larger diameter. If the mounting tube is tapered, perhaps a D equivalent AL-415 will fit.
You might try borrowing from friends to see what will fit. With a modern dispenser system a smaller cylinder goes a long way, especially if you're not routinely cruising at high altitude.
Jim

My gas supplier (Matheson-TriGas) finally scrapped all the steel E cylinders they had. I picked through the pile before they did and only got a couple of decent ones that weren't too rusted and banged up. Had them sandblasted, hydrotested and repainted. Unfortunately, I sold the last one three years ago and haven't been able to find any more. FYI, the diameter of the steel E cylinder is 100 mm. The Mountain High E&S equivalent AL-415 is 111 mm (4..4 in.) as is the AL-682. The cylinder lengths are 410 mm (16.2 in.) and 650 mm (25.6 in.) Neither of them will fit into an LS or Schleicher cylinder receptacle. (At least models through the ASG-29. I don't know whether the newer gliders have been changed to accept aluminum cylinders.) Unfortunately, European glider manufacturers do not take into account the needs of pilots flying in Western soaring conditions. I am regularly called on by European visitors to Moriarty for assistance in modifying their tiny little O2 systems to accommodate long high altitude flights.

On Tuesday, 3 December 2019 03:33:48 UTC-7, ian wrote:
I am trying to get my oxygen cylinder inspected for refilling. It is due
for a hydro test and inspection. However there has been a shake up of
cylinder inspections in the local dive industry and as a result the
inspector is checking all the paperwork very thoroughly. Unfortunately
he cannot identify the manufacture specification from the markings on
the cylinder, which is a bit of an issue.

The cylinder was supplied by Rolladen Schneider, with my LS3a, when it
was delivered new. It is a steel 4l cylinder, manufactured in Germany in
1979 that fits exactly into the molded O2 cylinder recess in the glider.
Does anybody know what the applicable manufacturing specification would
been at that time?

Thanks

Ian

I have a LS3-a and I use a KF-011 cylinder from Mountain High. It is a little smaller diameter so I taped two 1/2" strips of foam around it at each end. It fits in there snugly and doesn't go anywhere. It is easily removed for refilling. Using an EDS (electronic delivery system)from Mountain High makes O2 last a long time so the volume of the cylinder is not a problem.

R5

The KF-011 Kevlar wrapped cylinder is a good choice, but with a couple of drawbacks: It has a 15 year life limit from the date of the first hydro test before it must be removed from service, meaning after the expiration date, you will have a hard time getting it refilled at an FBO, you won't be able to get it tested and it might make your annual airframe inspection problematic. The second drawback is that it costs about 350% of a comparable aluminum cylinder. ($700 vs. $200 or so from Mountain High) But, if you can't find a suitable steel E cylinder, it might be the only choice that doesn't involve surgery on the aircraft to make an aluminum cylinder fit.

On Saturday, December 7, 2019 at 8:58:15 AM UTC-7, wrote:
The KF-011 Kevlar wrapped cylinder is a good choice, but with a couple of drawbacks: It has a 15 year life limit from the date of the first hydro test before it must be removed from service, meaning after the expiration date, you will have a hard time getting it refilled at an FBO, you won't be able to get it tested and it might make your annual airframe inspection problematic. The second drawback is that it costs about 350% of a comparable aluminum cylinder. ($700 vs. $200 or so from Mountain High) But, if you can't find a suitable steel E cylinder, it might be the only choice that doesn't involve surgery on the aircraft to make an aluminum cylinder fit.

Does it matter if the bottom of the cylinder is flat or rounded? I believe older bottles had rounded bottoms, whereas newer ones are flat on the bottom.

On 12/3/19 12:33 PM, ian wrote:
I am trying to get my oxygen cylinder inspected for refilling. It is due
for a hydro test and inspection. However there has been a shake up of
cylinder inspections in the local dive industry and as a result the
inspector is checking all the paperwork very thoroughly. Unfortunately
he cannot identify the manufacture specification from the markings on
the cylinder, which is a bit of an issue.

The cylinder was supplied by Rolladen Schneider, with my LS3a, when it
was delivered new. It is a steel 4l cylinder, manufactured in Germany in
1979 that fits exactly into the molded O2 cylinder recess in the glider.
Does anybody know what the applicable manufacturing specification would
been at that time?

I am back to square one with this. I need to track down some records
that will establish who made the cylinder and what standard it was made to.

Is there anyone in Germany who could assist?

Would this cylinder be eligible for inspection and re-full in Germany today?

(I could look for another 100mm diameter 4l cylinder, but they are very
rare. Or I could get it refilled privately, but first prize is to
document the cylinder that I currently have).

Thanks

Ian