Class D Sucks

But then again, it's been more than a few years since I was on the other
side of the headset, sitting at the radar scope.


Apparently.

*Was that necessary?*

After ten years and 1400 hours, we're far more comfortable
flying into busy non-controlled airspace than we are flying into so-called
controlled Class D airspace. That is a clear indication that Class D is not
working properly.

After 15 years and 5700 hours, Class D has worked for me.
I think it just might be a mixture of crappy pilots (Not saying you are one),
crappy controllers and bad timing.
I have seen both at various airports with Class D all over the country.

When I fly VFR into Class D (or any airspace, for that matter), I usually take
the controllers word as advice. I usually follow it because there is usually a
good reason to, but sometimes...ya just never know.

The key to it is realize the system isn't perfect and do not expect perfection.
Just gotta keep your head on swivel and your SA up.




-John
*You are nothing until you have flown a Douglas, Lockheed, Grumman or North
American*

Jay Honeck wrote:

entirely separate issue, and ONLY pertains to my perceptions of the
weaknesses of the FAA's concept of Class D airspace.

Unless I'm missing some USA specifics (if so, please correct me):
Class D airspace is not an FAA concept but rather an ICAO definition. It
seems to me that you should sit down and re-read the airspace
definitions. Class D: *No* separation provided for VFR flights.

Stefan

I doubt you have flown into an environment that was busier than that
segment
of time that Mary and I hit Dubuque.

Jay, don't be so sure. I fly as many hours in a year that you've flown in
ten, based on one of your post to another reader.

You fly 900+ hours per year?

As I said previously, I was not there and I am in no way judging your
actions or implying that you did anything wrong.

I know.

Next time I get over to that side of the world I'll stop by the Alexis
Park
Inn and introduce myself.

We'll keep the beacon on for ya!

;-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Unless I'm missing some USA specifics (if so, please correct me):
Class D airspace is not an FAA concept but rather an ICAO definition. It
seems to me that you should sit down and re-read the airspace definitions.
Class D: *No* separation provided for VFR flights.

Right -- there is no separation provided in Class D. And no one should
expect the controller to maintain separation.

This is precisely my point, which may be summed up thusly: Class D is
"pretend" controlled airspace. It should be regarded as "Barely
controlled" or "Semi-controlled"...
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:fPAwd.586096$D%.508731@attbi_s51...
Right -- there is no separation provided in Class D. And no one should
expect the controller to maintain separation.

This is precisely my point, which may be summed up thusly: Class D is
"pretend" controlled airspace. It should be regarded as "Barely
controlled" or "Semi-controlled"...

How about "Out of Control"?


--
Matt
---------------------
Matthew W. Barrow
Site-Fill Homes, LLC.
Montrose, CO

This is precisely my point, which may be summed up thusly: Class D is
"pretend" controlled airspace. It should be regarded as "Barely
controlled" or "Semi-controlled"...

How about "Out of Control"?

Better, yet...

;-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

"Jay Honeck" wrote:
That's my point. After ten years and 1400 hours, we're far more
comfortable
flying into busy non-controlled airspace than we are flying into so-called
controlled Class D airspace. That is a clear indication that Class D is
not
working properly.

My Class D airport works great and would be less safe without the tower, IMO.
It gets extremely busy at times with a mix of industrial helicopters,
military training, freighter heavies and GA jets and props. It has an FAA
tower with contract controllers; a veteran crew with solid techniques for
handling the peculiarities of the local traffic and airspace. I'd hate to
see the tower closed, as its controllers have always been better at calling
traffic than the local TRACON folks. Now that they finally have DBRITE
they've gotten even better. We kid them that it's taken all the fun out of
their jobs because we can't sneak up on them anymore.

When the airspace is
dead (as it usually is at a Class D tower), everything works fine --
although certainly no better than in "non-towered" airspace.

It's only when traffic picks up that things can get hairy -- which is truly
absurd when you consider that there wouldn't even BE a reason for a tower
except for those busy times.

I have negligible experience at other Class Ds, but my experience where I'm
based has been just the opposite.
--
Dan
C-172RG at BFM

On Fri, 17 Dec 2004 13:04:11 GMT, "Jay Honeck"
wrote:

Unless I'm missing some USA specifics (if so, please correct me):
Class D airspace is not an FAA concept but rather an ICAO definition. It
seems to me that you should sit down and re-read the airspace definitions.
Class D: *No* separation provided for VFR flights.

Right -- there is no separation provided in Class D. And no one should
expect the controller to maintain separation.

This is precisely my point, which may be summed up thusly: Class D is
"pretend" controlled airspace. It should be regarded as "Barely
controlled" or "Semi-controlled"...

My problem with Class D space is that it seems to impart an
inappropriate comfort level to many pilots who don't understand what
is (and is not) being provided. I have experienced a number of
problems at Class D airports (one in particular) in my short flying
career. I blame those problems on both controller error and pilot
error. I have been told to position and hold and then listened to the
controller clear someone to land on top of me twice. I have also seen
and heard pilots who were unable to accurate convey their position to
the controllers or were doing something contrary to what they reported
to the controller. My unscientific observation is that neither side
is improving much. I am at my highest risk alert level when flying in
D.
Rich Russell

"BTIZ" wrote in message
news:Q1vwd.31798$Ae.18996@fed1read05...

A VFR tower cannot issue a "radar vector", they can provide recommended
headings to fly.


I said "vector" and "departure instructions," not "radar vector." If the
tower tells you to depart on left downwind it is not a "recommendation," it
is an ATC instruction that you are obligated to follow under 91.123(b). Some
class D towers have upgraded radar and they do issue radar vectors, by the
way.