Why GA is Dying

Stubby wrote:

Nobody is forcing you to use that FBO. Frankly, I like the idea of
them keeping tabs on people hanging around planes they are responsible
for. If I owned a plane, I might seek out a place like that.

Well, some have more communist tendencies than others. I think Kyle is
right. This behavior was out of bounds and I'm glad he stepped in and
called them on it. If we let this crap continue, then the terrorists
really have won.


Matt

A lot of these requirements are being driven by TSA. Badges for people
employed at the airport. People with their own airplanes may soon need
badges too.

Also, many Airport Authorities, not the FBO, require permits for photo or
video that may be taken at the airport and sold for commercial use. This
does not stop the aircraft owner or CFI taking pictures of his newly solo'd
student.

BT

"Michael Ware" wrote in message
. ..

"Stubby" wrote in message
...
Frankly, I like the idea of
them keeping tabs on people hanging around planes they are responsible
for. If I owned a plane, I might seek out a place like that.


Yup, our FBO requires ID for those that enter the ramp thru the FBO. I
think it's a small inconvenience for the step up in security. If people
know
they can walk in off the street without question, that's where some
trouble
could start.

Dudley Henriques wrote:
"Emily" wrote in message
. ..

That security officer has every right to
approach you in a reasonable manner and ask you to explain what you are
doing.

Of course he does. And I have every right to refuse to explain myself.

You can think I'm anti-authority if you like, but my retired military
officer parents agree with my anti-authority streak, so your opinions
about it really mean nothing.

Andrew Sarangan wrote:

Dudley


The only true security would be to check ids and run it through an FBI
computer for each client who gets on the ramp, including landing
aircraft, which means all pilots and passengers must obtain this
permission ahead of time. As far as I know, there is no such airport. A
terrorist can take off from his private airstrip and land at JFK, OHare
etc..

Airport security is all for show. It targets the legitimate pilot and
his family. At our home airport after 9/11 they installed a perimeter
fence at the cost of several millions. All it did was increase the deer
population inside the fence and screw up the localizer signal which
increased the approach minimums. Even an overweight American can jump
across the fence, let alone a lean and mean middleeastern terrorist.

Now it would be different if the person was loading suspicious looking
objects into a suspicous looking aircraft. But a guy taking pictures of
an airplane? Come on.

I totally agree with the OP. Many eons ago I used to hang out at the
airport taking pictures of airplanes. Even the big jets landing at big
airports. If I had been chased away I very well might have been turned
off from this whole aviation thing.

Yes, pretty soon we'll have no GA airports to protect. I guess that is
the ultimate in GA security. Sigh...


Matt

It's airports like this and people with free access that have no business or
experience on an airport that are always leaving my canopy unlatched for the
wind to fling open. I'm glad someone is looking out.

BT


"Kyle Boatright" wrote in message
. ..

"Stubby" wrote in message
...
Nobody is forcing you to use that FBO. Frankly, I like the idea of them
keeping tabs on people hanging around planes they are responsible for.
If I owned a plane, I might seek out a place like that.


They are not keeping tabs on people hanging around the airport. There are
2 gates to the ramp and both are wide open all day. The gates are not
monitored. Automobiles are allowed on the ramp. Bikes are allowed on the
ramp. People are allowed on the ramp. No ID, no anything other than an
active GA community to keep an eye on things during the day. At night, one
gate is open and there is a security person around.

I'm fine with that. I don't need/want big brother at the airport. I
don't want to have to sign in or card in or have to meet guests at a
security gate. That kind of security just isn't necessary at a GA field.

The issue today was that the kid was taking pictures instead of just
pointing and talking. Why you'd need to have an ID to take pictures (as
opposed to walking the ramp or driving on the ramp) is unknowable. And,
why someone with the FBO would fabricate a rule about having a photo ID to
take pictures is bizzarre.

KB

Dudley Henriques wrote:

"Jim Logajan" wrote in message
...

"Dudley Henriques" wrote:

Airport security is a mess and needs
reform badly. My point was simply that having it is necessary.

Maybe all airports should emulate the kind of security they have at
AirVenture Oshkosh. ;-)


I really miss the "old days".

I remember one night at OSH many years ago with Steve Whitman and a whole
gang of us sitting around under the wing of my airplane eating hot dogs;
drinking cold beer; and telling old war stories. No gates; no cops; no
security; only good fellowship and the reflection of happy faces from the
fire a few yards down the line in an empty tiedown spot......YES!!!!!!!!
There actually WAS an empty tiedown spot!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

No way. I was actually believing your story until you got to the empty
tiedown statement... :-)

Matt

Emily wrote:

Dudley Henriques wrote:

"Emily" wrote in message
. ..

That security officer has every right to approach you in a reasonable
manner and ask you to explain what you are doing.


Of course he does. And I have every right to refuse to explain myself.

You can think I'm anti-authority if you like, but my retired military
officer parents agree with my anti-authority streak, so your opinions
about it really mean nothing.

You really should move out and learn to live on your own.

Matt

"Matt Whiting" wrote in message
...
Dudley Henriques wrote:

"Jim Logajan" wrote in message
...

"Dudley Henriques" wrote:

Airport security is a mess and needs
reform badly. My point was simply that having it is necessary.

Maybe all airports should emulate the kind of security they have at
AirVenture Oshkosh. ;-)


I really miss the "old days".

I remember one night at OSH many years ago with Steve Whitman and a whole
gang of us sitting around under the wing of my airplane eating hot dogs;
drinking cold beer; and telling old war stories. No gates; no cops; no
security; only good fellowship and the reflection of happy faces from the
fire a few yards down the line in an empty tiedown spot......YES!!!!!!!!
There actually WAS an empty tiedown spot!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

No way. I was actually believing your story until you got to the empty
tiedown statement... :-)

No kidding. Its the truth. Bonzo was in the hangar :-)))))
Dudley Henriques

"Emily" wrote in message
. ..
Dudley Henriques wrote:
"Emily" wrote in message
. ..
That security officer has every right to approach you in a reasonable
manner and ask you to explain what you are doing.

Of course he does. And I have every right to refuse to explain myself.

Of couse you do; and that is exactly what you did :-)

You can think I'm anti-authority if you like, but my retired military
officer parents agree with my anti-authority streak, so your opinions
about it really mean nothing.

Actually Emily, you being anti-authority or not is your business really, and
the fact that your parents, military or not, "agree with your anti-authority
streak" actually would have no effect on my opinion one way or the other, as
that opinion and/or any meaning that opinion might have are totally
unrelated to your parents.
Dudley Henriques

Matt Whiting wrote:
Emily wrote:

Dudley Henriques wrote:

"Emily" wrote in message
. ..

That security officer has every right to approach you in a reasonable
manner and ask you to explain what you are doing.


Of course he does. And I have every right to refuse to explain myself.

You can think I'm anti-authority if you like, but my retired military
officer parents agree with my anti-authority streak, so your opinions
about it really mean nothing.

You really should move out and learn to live on your own.

Move out where? Out of my house? No thanks, if I pay a mortgage on
property, I'd like to enjoy living there.