The Irony of Boeing/Jeppesen Being Charged User Fees!

It would seem that Oz has turned the tables on would be user fee
monger, Boeing:


-------------------------------------------------------------------
Business AVflash Volume 2, Issue 2 -- January 21, 2004
-------------------------------------------------------------------

JEPPESEN TAKES ON DOWNUNDER USER FEES
Jeppesen said earlier this month that it is refusing, so far, to sign
an agreement with the Australian government to pay what in the U.S.
would be a user fee for the privilege of using public data to compile
aeronautical charts and information. According to Jeppesen, it and
other commercial organizations are being asked by Airservices
Australia to sign a licensing agreement and pay a license fee, the
first of its kind. Jeppesen says the amount of the fee has yet to be
determined, but it and other companies compiling such data are
confident that it will be significant.
http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archive...ll.html#186538

"Larry Dighera" wrote in message
...


It would seem that Oz has turned the tables on would be user fee
monger, Boeing:


-------------------------------------------------------------------
Business AVflash Volume 2, Issue 2 -- January 21, 2004
-------------------------------------------------------------------

JEPPESEN TAKES ON DOWNUNDER USER FEES
Jeppesen said earlier this month that it is refusing, so far, to sign
an agreement with the Australian government to pay what in the U.S.
would be a user fee for the privilege of using public data to compile
aeronautical charts and information. According to Jeppesen, it and
other commercial organizations are being asked by Airservices
Australia to sign a licensing agreement and pay a license fee, the
first of its kind. Jeppesen says the amount of the fee has yet to be
determined, but it and other companies compiling such data are
confident that it will be significant.
http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archive...ll.html#186538



And this pertains to GENERAL AVIATION how?

In article . net,
Chuck wrote:

And this pertains to GENERAL AVIATION how?

Well, let me see...
Jeppesen provides the data base updates for all the GPS, LORANs, global
navigation systems. That includes all of general and commercial as well
as military aviation.
If someone chooses to use other than government published approach,
enroute navigation, NOTAMs, Jeppesen is the best known source for
general, commercial and military aviation.
I would say it is a topic of considerable interest to this group.
Don't be so narrow minded in considering this group a "USA-only" forum.

EDR wrote:

In article . net,
Chuck wrote:


And this pertains to GENERAL AVIATION how?


Well, let me see...
Jeppesen provides the data base updates for all the GPS, LORANs, global
navigation systems. That includes all of general and commercial as well
as military aviation.
If someone chooses to use other than government published approach,
enroute navigation, NOTAMs, Jeppesen is the best known source for
general, commercial and military aviation.
I would say it is a topic of considerable interest to this group.
Don't be so narrow minded in considering this group a "USA-only" forum.

MS Flight Simulator weather data comes from there either.

Ultimately it won't cost them a cent - it's us who'll be paying




"Larry Dighera" wrote in message
...


It would seem that Oz has turned the tables on would be user fee
monger, Boeing:


-------------------------------------------------------------------
Business AVflash Volume 2, Issue 2 -- January 21, 2004
-------------------------------------------------------------------

JEPPESEN TAKES ON DOWNUNDER USER FEES
Jeppesen said earlier this month that it is refusing, so far, to sign
an agreement with the Australian government to pay what in the U.S.
would be a user fee for the privilege of using public data to compile
aeronautical charts and information. According to Jeppesen, it and
other commercial organizations are being asked by Airservices
Australia to sign a licensing agreement and pay a license fee, the
first of its kind. Jeppesen says the amount of the fee has yet to be
determined, but it and other companies compiling such data are
confident that it will be significant.
http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archive...ll.html#186538

"Larry Dighera" wrote in message
.. .


It would seem that Oz has turned the tables on would be user fee
monger, Boeing:


-------------------------------------------------------------------
Business AVflash Volume 2, Issue 2 -- January 21, 2004
-------------------------------------------------------------------

JEPPESEN TAKES ON DOWNUNDER USER FEES
Jeppesen said earlier this month that it is refusing, so far, to sign
an agreement with the Australian government to pay what in the U.S.
would be a user fee for the privilege of using public data to compile
aeronautical charts and information. According to Jeppesen, it and
other commercial organizations are being asked by Airservices
Australia to sign a licensing agreement and pay a license fee, the
first of its kind. Jeppesen says the amount of the fee has yet to be
determined, but it and other companies compiling such data are
confident that it will be significant.
http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archive...ll.html#186538


On Fri, 23 Jan 2004 13:39:21 +1300, "Cockpit Colin"
wrote in Message-Id: :

Ultimately it won't cost them a cent - it's us who'll be paying


Perhaps. If Boeing/Jeppesen were to refuse to pay for the database,
and pull out of the Oz market, I'll bet there would be a rather large
backlash. Or they could glean the data from the government printed
documents (plates, charts, ...), and go right along without paying the
new license fee.

I just found it ironic that Boeing/Jeppesen, who are in the business
of providing contract ATC services to nations that are privatizing, is
unhappy about the prospect of paying.

Larry Dighera wrote in message . ..
I just found it ironic that Boeing/Jeppesen, who are in the business
of providing contract ATC services to nations that are privatizing, is
unhappy about the prospect of paying.

I agree! It's really annoying to me that my taxpayer dollars pay for
the FAA compile the data, Jeppesen gets that data for free, and I have
to pay Jepp to put it in my GPS.

Paying once for a Jepp database may make sense, but for the updates,
all I care about is changed FAA airspace, moved airports, and other
data that they get from the FAA. I'd really like to see a standard
format for updating GPS databases and the ability to then update
monthly, without paying Jepp, from an FAA database.

But I suspect that will never happen, even though it would add to
safety since few pilots update their databases monthly now, largely
because of the cost.

Martin

In article ,
(Martin Hellman) wrote:

I agree! It's really annoying to me that my taxpayer dollars pay for
the FAA compile the data, Jeppesen gets that data for free, and I have
to pay Jepp to put it in my GPS.

Jepp expends effort compiling, filtering, checking, and
formating that data. The data doesn't come out of the FAA
ready to copy into your GPS.

--
Bob Noel

On 22 Jan 2004 22:47:11 -0800, (Martin Hellman)
wrote in Message-Id:
:

Larry Dighera wrote in message . ..
I just found it ironic that Boeing/Jeppesen, who are in the business
of providing contract ATC services to nations that are privatizing, is
unhappy about the prospect of paying.

I agree! It's really annoying to me that my taxpayer dollars pay for
the FAA compile the data, Jeppesen gets that data for free, and I have
to pay Jepp to put it in my GPS.

Capitalism is alive and well ...

Paying once for a Jepp database may make sense, but for the updates,
all I care about is changed FAA airspace, moved airports, and other
data that they get from the FAA. I'd really like to see a standard
format for updating GPS databases and the ability to then update
monthly, without paying Jepp, from an FAA database.

With the proliferation of the use of GPS for aviation, it would seem
the time is right for an enterprising software engineer to develop a
computer program that would perform the conversion of data from FAA
format to GPS format. Unfortunately, frustrating such a scheme are
the differences between GPS manufacturer's data formats. However, an
enterprising Unix awk programmer could probably accomplish the task
without too much difficulty.

And then there's the FAA's approach:

http://gps.faa.gov/Programs/nas/digi...abase-text.htm
Digital Database

There has been concern about the cost to General Aviation users of
a digital database necessary for GPS equipment. While such
databases are currently provided by commercial sources through
subscription or by equipment manufacturers, the FAA has answered
an AOPA request to examine the possibility of providing a low-cost
digital flight database. Aviation System Standards' National
Aeronautical Charting Office is currently developing a generic GPS
database that will be available for enroute use by January 2002,
and will be populated with GPS approach procedures by January
2003. The cost for this database is currently unknown, but it is
expected that it will be made available at a minimal charge, if
any. It will more than likely be available through GPS avionics
equipment manufacturers as a lower-cost alternative to commercial
database subscriptions.


But I suspect that will never happen, even though it would add to
safety since few pilots update their databases monthly now, largely
because of the cost.

Martin

Perhaps this free program is part of the equation:


http://web.abnormal.com/~avia_dbm/
Overview of the AviaDBM Package

AviaDBM software gives full access to the Aviation Database for
Garmin® GPS 89, GPS 90, GPS 95, GPS 92, GPS 190, GPS 195, GPS 196,
GPS 295, and GPS III Pilot models. Updates for the current units
can be used to update earlier models, and
additions/deletions/changes may be made to any of the sections.

The software is written for a PC running Windows 9x or later. It
is issued in a self-extracting file, and is installed in the
directory of your choice by the Freeman® Installer.

Full upload/download capability is included for other classes of
data such as User Waypoints, Routes, Tracks, Almanac, and
Proximity points. The software may also be used for non-aviation
GPS models, and will convert User Waypoints and Routes files
between some models.

Popular uses for the package include:

1. Creating a new database for a discontinued unit, using an
update file for a current unit.

2. Correction of compilation errors in Garmin issued databases
(see 'Documentation').

3. Adding a complete set of gliding turn points to the NDB
database.

4. Adding all the small airfields in selected countries to the
APT database.

5. Adding all the visual reporting points to the INT database.

6. Adding airways to the special use airspace SUA database.

7. Making published changes to the whole database, thereby
reducing the need to purchase updates.

8. Creating a database containing a user-selected geographical
area, or a non-standard set of countries.

Available at: http://web.abnormal.com/~avia_dbm/index.html

On Fri, 23 Jan 2004 11:53:23 GMT, Bob Noel
wrote in Message-Id:
:

In article ,
(Martin Hellman) wrote:

I agree! It's really annoying to me that my taxpayer dollars pay for
the FAA compile the data, Jeppesen gets that data for free, and I have
to pay Jepp to put it in my GPS.

Jepp expends effort compiling, filtering, checking, and
formating that data. The data doesn't come out of the FAA
ready to copy into your GPS.

That is very true. Jeppesen does a lot of work formatting and
correcting the FAA data for use in each GPS receiver. They also
assume considerable liability risk in providing their products.