Germany invented it. We shot it down

(ArtKramr) wrote in message ...
Subject: Germany invented it. We shot it down
From: "Keith Willshaw"
Date: 2/19/04 8:21 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:


"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...
Nuff said.



Or bombed it

Keith



Yeah. I forgot about that part. (grin)


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

Senility will do that to ya Art.

Rob

Subject: Germany invented it. We shot it down
From: (robert arndt)
Date: 2/19/04 5:22 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

(ArtKramr) wrote in message
...
Subject: Germany invented it. We shot it down
From: "Keith Willshaw"
Date: 2/19/04 8:21 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:


"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...
Nuff said.



Or bombed it

Keith



Yeah. I forgot about that part. (grin)


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

Senility will do that to ya Art.

Rob


Do you know what Germany looked like in 1945? Most kids like you have no
idea.


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

Subject: Germany invented it. We shot it down
From: (robert arndt)
Date: 2/19/04 5:18 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

(ArtKramr) wrote in message
...
Nuff said.


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

The Luftwaffe shot down 120,000 aircraft of its own

Rob

Blow your nose. It's running.


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

"steve gallacci" wrote in message
...

Or laughed at it after the war. They really should have mass produced
the
piloted version of the V-1. Just think, we could have killed more pilots
that
way, the Nazis would have wasted money and material and, most
imporantly, put
them in the air flying a straight line and making an easy target.

Actually they did build a bunch (some estimates say as many as 250) but
it seems that Nazi ideology got in the way of implementing operations,
as they could not decide on targets sufficiently valuable to sacrifice
Aryan blood for.

Between planes like Mistel, commandos like Skorzeny, and sheer number of
targets, perhaps there were other reasons. And they didn't institute direck
Kamikaze style attacks as a policy. One of the amazing things to me about
German aircraft projects in WW2 was how fragmented things often were,
multiple teams and such, and so many projects competing for resources. Then
they often had problems with leadership interfering with use of weapons (A
la the Me-262.) In the end, it was not just allied productivity but the
organization of their companies, labor and project bureaus that helped their
airmen at the front. Examples like Ford converting to aircraft production
and improving things on some planes, etc. Plus the sharing of the Merlin
engine by the British and high-test gas by the USA. Russia also got stuff
like the DC-3 design. And of course the US/UK Manharttan Project. The Allied
organization helped immensely to get scientists, designers and workers the
stuff they needed and prioritise things.

One of the things applicapable to this thread was the US taking the
conventional V-1 design and producing weapons with the idea of using them
against Japan, but they never did, the war ending before they could be used.

DEP

"robert arndt" wrote in message
om...
"Keith Willshaw" wrote in message
...
"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...
Nuff said.

Or bombed it

Keith

And Germany laid waste to Europe and Russia not to mention costing
Britain, France, and Belgium their colonies postwar. So glad Germany
cost Britain its superpower status and robbed them of developing the
A-bomb first (Tube Alloys).


Rob

Well, the expense of WW2 screwed everybody up for a while. But given the
choice of fighting or losing everything, the French and British probably
would feel today the cost was worth it. As it was, Hitler did in Germany as
bad as anyone. I feel for the Germans for what they went through due to
having that regime leading them.

As for Britain losing superpower status and the bomb, Britain got the A-Bomb
under the terms of the Manhattan Project cooperation. As for Superpower
status, Britain is still one of the great powers, and as influence go they
are still up there, if just for language and culture. I flip on news
broadcasts around the world, and most gov'ts hire english speaking people
with english accents to do their news broadcasts. Not to knock Germany,
though, the influence they have and the potential there are significant,
given their position in Central Europe and their Economy. Germany could also
be a nuclear power if they wanted, but they see no need at the time, and as
the US and UK are their allies now, things should be OK for them defensively
for some time to come.

As for the European colonies being lost, that decline started after WW1. Due
again to expense.

DEP

(B2431) wrote in message ...
From: "Keith Willshaw"
Date: 2/19/2004 10:21 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id:


"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...
Nuff said.



Or bombed it

Keith


Or laughed at it after the war. They really should have mass produced the
piloted version of the V-1. Just think, we could have killed more pilots that
way, the Nazis would have wasted money and material and, most imporantly, put
them in the air flying a straight line and making an easy target.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired


The Reichenberg was a effectively a near suicide weapon but the
Germans did take care that it wasn't a forgone conclusion. Unlike the
Japanese Baka in which the pilot was sealed in his cockpit it did have
an escape system: parachute, terminal autopilot and a two seat two
cockit versions were made to train pilots presumably with a simulated
escape.

The As 014 pulse jet was continiously tweeked to improve its speed.
With a slightly lightend warload (like the latter buzz bombs) and the
tweeked engines which had shown themselves to work at 495mph I expect
a speed of 495mph would have been possible or at least necessary for
the Reichberg to work. Enough to evade interception. Dodging radar
directed guns with proximity fuses might have been more difficult but
even there the weapon would have been capable of some degree of
weaving. Still such a weapon if it can be made survivable enough for
say a 33% or more hit rate and the targets are chosen carefully IT is
a mathematically sensible use of resources if it destroys and kills
more than it costs. Me 109s in the last stages of the war had an
attrition rate of 30%. It takes balls to get in the air in that
situation and in some ways their missions would have been almost more
pointless than a suicide mission.

If it ever got down to the wire do you think the allies would be
capable of producing the men for this kind of mission? Sure WWII
aircrew had around the 50% chance of completing a tour of duty (about
the same as Ed Rasimus had flying thuds over Vietnam). but to face
odds like that or like 95% on a single mission? Today I don't you
could find such people.

From: (robert arndt)


"Keith Willshaw" wrote in message
...
"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...
Nuff said.



Or bombed it

Keith

And Germany laid waste to Europe and Russia not to mention costing
Britain, France, and Belgium their colonies postwar. So glad Germany
cost Britain its superpower status and robbed them of developing the
A-bomb first (Tube Alloys).


Rob

Now the truth comes out, you are proud of your country's slaughter of innocent
men, women and children. I bet you are also proud of the 6 million Jews and the
6 million non Jews you guys killed.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

From: (robert arndt)
Date: 2/19/2004 7:18 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

(ArtKramr) wrote in message
...
Nuff said.


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

The Luftwaffe shot down 120,000 aircraft of its own

Rob

I know as a German you have a hard time with English grammar, but what you said
was the Luftwaffe shot down 120,000 of their own aircraft.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

Subject: Germany invented it. We shot it down
From: "David E. Powell"
Date: 2/19/04 6:24 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

Between planes like Mistel, commandos like Skorzeny,

You might be interested in visiting my website and reading about the day I had
lunch with Skorzeny. Just click on:

Lunch With SS STURMGRUPENNFUHRER OTTO SKORZENY



Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

"robert arndt" wrote in message
om...
"Keith Willshaw" wrote in message
...
"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...
Nuff said.



Or bombed it

Keith

And Germany laid waste to Europe and Russia not to mention costing
Britain, France, and Belgium their colonies postwar. So glad Germany
cost Britain its superpower status and robbed them of developing the
A-bomb first (Tube Alloys).


Rob

Obviously a *quote* ? by someone who has never been "Harms way"