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Instructor Rates?



 
 
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  #1  
Old September 7th 03, 10:42 PM
david whitley
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Default Instructor Rates?

I've been flying Boeings for the past 35 years and been "out of the market".
What are CFI's/CFII's getting these days?


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  #2  
Old September 7th 03, 11:02 PM
Ben Jackson
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Default

In article ,
david whitley wrote:
I've been flying Boeings for the past 35 years and been "out of the market".
What are CFI's/CFII's getting these days?


Around here the *cost* is $30-35/hr, sometimes more for air/less for
ground, sometimes more for "advanced" instruction. How much of that
goes to the instructors probably varies quite a bit more.

--
Ben Jackson

http://www.ben.com/
  #3  
Old September 8th 03, 12:02 AM
Dan Luke
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Default

"david whitley" wrote:
I've been flying Boeings for the past 35 years and
been "out of the market".
What are CFI's/CFII's getting these days?


Independent CFI's in Mobile are getting $25-35/hour.
--
Dan
C172RG at BFM


  #4  
Old September 8th 03, 12:20 AM
Craig Prouse
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Default

"david whitley" wrote:

I've been flying Boeings for the past 35 years and been "out of the market".
What are CFI's/CFII's getting these days?


http://www.wvfc.org/instructors.html

  #5  
Old September 8th 03, 04:52 AM
Tony
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In the high desert of socal CFI's at the local FBO get $20 an hour.
KAPV

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  #6  
Old September 8th 03, 07:29 PM
Marco Leon
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You mean after the initial "software" training, they need an additional 3
full days every 6 months for recurrency?? For the $4200/year I sure hope
you're talking about training for the Collins ProLine bizjet gadgets and not
the Garmin 430...




"paul k. sanchez" wrote in message
...
I've been flying Boeings for the past 35 years and been "out of the

market".
What are CFI's/CFII's getting these days?


Change the concept of doing business with people who are getting a

certificate
or rating. Do busines with the people who need to be insurance qualified

for
the aircraft they purchased, initial and every 6 month currency. Also

teaching
people the software in the aircraft.

Initial courses are about 5 days, software training is also about 5 days,

6
month recurrency is 3 days.

Billing is by the day. My fee is $700/day.


paul k. sanchez, cfii-mei
on eagles' wings
2011 south perimeter road, suite g
fort lauderdale, florida 33309-7135
305-389-1742 wireless
954-776-0527 fax
954-965-8329 home/fax




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  #7  
Old September 9th 03, 02:28 AM
paul k. sanchez
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You mean after the initial "software" training, they need an additional 3 full
days every 6 months for recurrency?? For the $4200/year I sure hope you're
talking about training for the Collins ProLine bizjet gadgets and not the
Garmin 430...

Good evening Marco:
If you were to purchase an $1.6m aircraft such as the meridian, or a $2.6m such
as the TBM700, and you had the financial resources not to need insurance
coverage, then I would very much agree with you that you have no need of my
services.

As long as insurance underwriters are very skitish about hull values of $500k
or more, there will be initial and recurrency training requirements for the
policy to be effective. The insurance underwriters choose which training
programs they approve, the client choose which one he will get the training at.

If you object to my syllabus having 5 days to be proficient in the software, or
even the 10 days for initial training in the make/model you are of course
welcome not to use my services and even publish your dismay about my rates as
much as you like.

I sincerely hope that you have found a training environment that meets yours
and your underwriter's needs.

Perhaps you might take the time to read the 22 august 2003 FAA safety study of
what they call "Technicaly Advanced Aircraft". The safety study looked at 11
accidents with the SR20 and SR22. 10 out of 11 were found to have pilot
deficiencies in the software and aircraft. Interestingly this pretty much is
contrary to your opinion but perhaps you do not own an SR20 or SR22.

But of course this is only my opinion and my clients tend to agree with me. And
at my rate of $700/day I am not going to hold my breath waiting for your call.

Fly safe by knowing what safe is.





paul k. sanchez, cfii-mei
on eagles’ wings
2011 south perimeter road, suite g
fort lauderdale, florida 33309-7135
305-389-1742 wireless
954-776-0527 fax
954-965-8329 home/fax

  #8  
Old September 9th 03, 12:22 PM
Richard Kaplan
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Default

"paul k. sanchez" wrote in message
...

If you object to my syllabus having 5 days to be proficient in the

software, or
even the 10 days for initial training in the make/model you are of course
welcome not to use my services and even publish your dismay about my rates

as
much as you like.



I, too, provide advanced avionics training, recurrent instrument training,
and insurance-approved checkouts for high-performance airplanes billed on a
"per day" basis. Granted my instruction is mostly in piston singles rather
than turbines, but the analogy is certainly there.

My syllabus is customized and flexible; I think both when a student is
flying this complex an airplane and when a student is paying "professional"
rates for an instructor's time, it is appropriate to develop a syllabus
which reflect's a given students experience, airplane, mission profiles,
strengths, weaknesses, and preferences. Sometimes recurrent training with
me in a single-engine piston airplane takes 4 hours annually; sometimes it
takes 2 days twice a year. Some students want to do this all in the
simulator, some all in the airplane, most in a combination of the two.
Sometimes there is flyable low IFR weather and a student wants take
advantage of this and fly ILS approaches to 300-1 all day. Every situation
is different.

I find both insurance companies and students appreciate this flexibility in
syllabus as long as it is done with reasonable judgment; I have yet to be
turned down by an insurer for approval to complete a recurrent training
program using this philosophy.


--
Richard Kaplan, CFII

www.flyimc.com



  #9  
Old September 9th 03, 10:23 PM
Marco Leon
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Posts: n/a
Default

It sounds like you took my post as a direct stab against your instructional
abilities. Although I find it hard to see how, that was not my intent and I
apologize if anyone else took it that way.

I was reacting to your statement in your original post and I quote, "Do
business with the people who need to be insurance qualified for the aircraft
they purchased, initial and every 6 month currency."

The key word there is "need." So let me restate my post as a question. Are
there really avionics suites that require 5-day software-only recurrency
training every six months by an insurance company? There, is that better?

Out of curiosity, how long is your recommended syllabus for someone with a
basic Garmin GNS 430/530 setup? If you tell me that it's the 5-day
recurrency training every six months and that you are getting that on a
regular basis then I'm scheduling my CFI training tomorrow. And I'm being
serious too.

I've paid for instructors for many hours beyond both my private ticket and
instrument rating so I know and appreciate the value of proficiency
training. I can easily see how someone can spend 10 days for initial
training in a new model like the TBM700.

I've also read the FAA study you refer to and I *do* agree with it for the
most part (I don't even own an SR-22). However, If my insurance company
turns around and tells me tomorrow that I need to go for a five-day GPS
training course every 6 months before they'll insure me, then I would cry
foul. I think most IFR GPS owners in this group would. If they required only
that I take an initial training certification class in my type, then I can
see their point. I think I'm a reasonable guy in that respect. Of course
this is a slippery slope favoring the insurance companies but that's a
different thread.

For the sake of General Aviation, I hope you can make a decent living doing
what you do. I'm a bit envious actually. Good luck.

Regards,

Marco

"paul k. sanchez" wrote in message
...
You mean after the initial "software" training, they need an additional 3

full
days every 6 months for recurrency?? For the $4200/year I sure hope you're
talking about training for the Collins ProLine bizjet gadgets and not the
Garmin 430...

Good evening Marco:
If you were to purchase an $1.6m aircraft such as the meridian, or a $2.6m

such
as the TBM700, and you had the financial resources not to need insurance
coverage, then I would very much agree with you that you have no need of

my
services.

As long as insurance underwriters are very skitish about hull values of

$500k
or more, there will be initial and recurrency training requirements for

the
policy to be effective. The insurance underwriters choose which training
programs they approve, the client choose which one he will get the

training at.

If you object to my syllabus having 5 days to be proficient in the

software, or
even the 10 days for initial training in the make/model you are of course
welcome not to use my services and even publish your dismay about my rates

as
much as you like.

I sincerely hope that you have found a training environment that meets

yours
and your underwriter's needs.

Perhaps you might take the time to read the 22 august 2003 FAA safety

study of
what they call "Technicaly Advanced Aircraft". The safety study looked at

11
accidents with the SR20 and SR22. 10 out of 11 were found to have pilot
deficiencies in the software and aircraft. Interestingly this pretty much

is
contrary to your opinion but perhaps you do not own an SR20 or SR22.

But of course this is only my opinion and my clients tend to agree with

me. And
at my rate of $700/day I am not going to hold my breath waiting for your

call.

Fly safe by knowing what safe is.





paul k. sanchez, cfii-mei
on eagles' wings
2011 south perimeter road, suite g
fort lauderdale, florida 33309-7135
305-389-1742 wireless
954-776-0527 fax
954-965-8329 home/fax




Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
----------------------------------------------------------
** SPEED ** RETENTION ** COMPLETION ** ANONYMITY **
----------------------------------------------------------
http://www.usenet.com
  #10  
Old September 10th 03, 12:32 AM
paul k. sanchez
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

It sounds like you took my post as a direct stab against your instructional
abilities. Although I find it hard to see how, that was not my intent and I
apologize if anyone else took it that way.

I was reacting to your statement in your original post and I quote, "Do

business with the people who need to be insurance qualified for the aircraft
they purchased, initial and every 6 month currency."

The key word there is "need." So let me restate my post as a question. Are

there really avionics suites that require 5-day software-only recurrency
training every six months by an insurance company? There, is that better?

Out of curiosity, how long is your recommended syllabus for someone with a

basic Garmin GNS 430/530 setup? If you tell me that it's the 5-day recurrency
training every six months and that you are getting that on a regular basis then
I'm scheduling my CFI training tomorrow. And I'm being serious too.

I've paid for instructors for many hours beyond both my private ticket and

instrument rating so I know and appreciate the value of proficiency training. I
can easily see how someone can spend 10 days for initial training in a new
model like the TBM700.

I've also read the FAA study you refer to and I *do* agree with it for the

most part (I don't even own an SR-22). However, If my insurance company turns
around and tells me tomorrow that I need to go for a five-day GPS training
course every 6 months before they'll insure me, then I would cry foul. I think
most IFR GPS owners in this group would. If they required only that I take an
initial training certification class in my type, then I can see their point. I
think I'm a reasonable guy in that respect. Of course this is a slippery slope
favoring the insurance companies but that's a different thread.

For the sake of General Aviation, I hope you can make a decent living doing

what you do. I'm a bit envious actually. Good luck.

Regards,

Marco

Good evening Marco:
Insurance underwriters require not only initial, but also recurrency training
in make/model of aircraft and of course ALL systems (or software if you like)
in the aircraft. Since the named pilot is required to complete an instrument
proficiency check (done over the course of 3-5 days) for his recurrency, yes
indeed the software is included.

Perhaps you have the misunderstanding that the software itself insurance
mandated required every 6 month training. No, that is incorrect. It is only the
aircraft itself with all of its components that insurance underwriter wants
every 6 month training.

As I said the lesser the hull value the less the training requirements by
insurance underwriters. When you have a relatively a hull value, $350k or more,
the underwriters want to be able to sleep at night rather than get a phone call
to the claims department.

When the aircraft itself has a fair history but "worse than average" rate with
average pilots, the underwriters want changes. They want a training syllabus
that reflects the accident history, real life scenarios for training, and of
course real world weather which means being on trips for up the exposure. This
is all related to the pilot-in-command learning decision making in what he can
find himself in.

Marco will you please explain to me how I can ignore the software aspects of
the aircraft, including of course the flight director, altitude pre-selector,
control wheel steering, 2 EFIS, weather uplink, weather display, radar
controller, TCAS, VNAV function, 2 moving maps, cabin pressurization, etc.

Could you please introduce me to someone who owns any aircraft 5 years old or
less, and feels that it only took 2 days to learn the equipment, and recurrency
is a waste of time (money).

I think you are severely understating the learning involved. But I have not met
you nor do I know what software is in your aircraft. Therefor it would be
incorrect of me to comment on what you already know.

As I said earlier I hope you have found a satisfactory training program that
not only meets your needs (budget) but also that of your underwriter.

And by the way if you give me your email address, I'll be happy to send you the
full operational guides for the Garmin 530, KFC325, EFIS 50/40, KMD850,
RDR2000, ETM by Shadin, KDR510, GAD42, PC12 by Pilatus, TBM700 by Socata,
PA46-350p and PA46-500tp and PA32r-300t by Piper. After you read the full
operational guides, perhaps you could inform us what is a reasonable training
curricula.

It is only my opinion that you have mistaken the concept of software training
being exclusive of the pilot proficiency requirements. If you wish to talk to
me personaly and perhaps have some of your misunderstanding resolved, my phone
is 305-389-1742.

Fly safe by knowing what safe is.


paul k. sanchez, cfii-mei
on eagles’ wings
2011 south perimeter road, suite g
fort lauderdale, florida 33309-7135
305-389-1742 wireless
954-776-0527 fax
954-965-8329 home/fax

 




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