Garmin 430

Mark,

The 430 does not have a glide slope. It is not certified for use in
precision approaches. It does have a page that will show you the CDI
for tracking VOR and Localizers, etc.

Are you kidding? Of course the 430 has a glideslope receiver. It doesn't
have an INDICATOR, but that's a different thing. You need a separate CDI
indicator anyway to be certified for IFR approaches - the built-in page
won't do. That CDI/glide slope indicator may contain the required
annunciators, too.

Is this one piece of equipment enough to enable my 172 to be instrument
certified?

Well, here you have to be careful. There are some who will argue that
you can legally fly IFR with nothing more than a hand-held GPS unit.

I don't think so.


You can review FAR 91.205 for required equipment and instruments, and
specifically sub-section (d), which covers IFR.



Yep.
--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

My 430 has glideslope as do all the others I have seen. Where are you
getting the idea that it does not?

Mike
MU-2


"Mark Hansen" wrote in message
...
On 12/6/2005 15:25, wrote:

I have a VFR only 172 and I am considering IFR training.

I am looking for the most practical way to make my plane IFR certified
and useful.

At first glance, it appears to me that the Garmin 430 provides a LOT of
useful information for relatively not much money.

I have 2 questions though....

to use the glideslope / VOR / LOC functions of the 430, do I have to
have a glide slope indicator and VOR indicator or are these bits of
information displayed on hte 430 unit?


The 430 does not have a glide slope. It is not certified for use in
precision approaches. It does have a page that will show you the CDI
for tracking VOR and Localizers, etc.

Is this one piece of equipment enough to enable my 172 to be instrument
certified?

Well, here you have to be careful. There are some who will argue that
you can legally fly IFR with nothing more than a hand-held GPS unit.

You can review FAR 91.205 for required equipment and instruments, and
specifically sub-section (d), which covers IFR.

The Garmin GNS 430 is a TSO C-129 certified unit, so although it can
be used as the sole means of IFR navigation, you must have an alternate
means of navigation on board and functional (there's a lot more to this,
but this is the jist of it).

There is a section in the AIM that talks about the use of a GPS system
in lieu of other navigation equipment, and when it is allowed. You should
check that out as well.

Basically, if you don't have a glide slope receiver, you won't be able
to fly any precision approaches. If you don't have an ADF, you won't
be able to fly any NDB approaches (not that there are that many left).

Let me know if you have any more questions, and watch out: there are
going to be a lot of opinions on this one (just look at the other
GPS threads over the last couple of months or so...).



I realize that I will be needing backup instruments to reliably fly in
IMC, that will come with time...what I need now is training and learned
proficiency.

Simulators can help with some types of proficiency. Let me know if you
want to talk about that.


Thanks,

Jamie A. Landers
PP-ASEL



--
Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Airplane
Sacramento, CA

wrote:
Mark Hansen wrote:


Basically, if you don't have a glide slope receiver, you won't be able
to fly any precision approaches. If you don't have an ADF, you won't
be able to fly any NDB approaches (not that there are that many left).


They're disappearing, but they're not quite dead yet. I count 29 in
New York and New Jersey alone -- I don't know how often they're
actually used, but at least they're still publishing the plates in the
current cycle:

....and there are plenty of airports in Canada where the only approach requires
an ADF, also in the rest of the world outside the US.

On 12/6/2005 16:22, Ron Lee wrote:

The 430 does not have a glide slope. It is not certified for use in
precision approaches. It does have a page that will show you the CDI
for tracking VOR and Localizers, etc.

It has full ILS capability once you provide the CDI unit. I have done
my instrument training with that one unit only.

I Guess I was thinking of the unit in GPS mode. Yes, you can still tune
in ILS stations and fly ILS approaches with the unit in VLOC mode (assuming
you have the right indicators).

Sorry for the confusion.


Ron Lee


--
Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Airplane
Sacramento, CA

On 12/6/2005 15:50, Mark Hansen wrote:

On 12/6/2005 15:25, wrote:

I have a VFR only 172 and I am considering IFR training.

I am looking for the most practical way to make my plane IFR certified
and useful.

At first glance, it appears to me that the Garmin 430 provides a LOT of
useful information for relatively not much money.

I have 2 questions though....

to use the glideslope / VOR / LOC functions of the 430, do I have to
have a glide slope indicator and VOR indicator or are these bits of
information displayed on hte 430 unit?


The 430 does not have a glide slope. It is not certified for use in
precision approaches. It does have a page that will show you the CDI
for tracking VOR and Localizers, etc.


Oops, I meant the unit in GPS mode. The unit can be placed in VLOC mode
and used with an ILS station, assuming you have the right indicators
(CDI w/glide slope).

I thought the poster was asking about the use of the 430 as a stand-alone
unit with no other instrumentation.

Is this one piece of equipment enough to enable my 172 to be instrument
certified?

Well, here you have to be careful. There are some who will argue that
you can legally fly IFR with nothing more than a hand-held GPS unit.

You can review FAR 91.205 for required equipment and instruments, and
specifically sub-section (d), which covers IFR.

The Garmin GNS 430 is a TSO C-129 certified unit, so although it can
be used as the sole means of IFR navigation, you must have an alternate
means of navigation on board and functional (there's a lot more to this,
but this is the jist of it).

There is a section in the AIM that talks about the use of a GPS system
in lieu of other navigation equipment, and when it is allowed. You should
check that out as well.

Basically, if you don't have a glide slope receiver, you won't be able
to fly any precision approaches. If you don't have an ADF, you won't
be able to fly any NDB approaches (not that there are that many left).

Let me know if you have any more questions, and watch out: there are
going to be a lot of opinions on this one (just look at the other
GPS threads over the last couple of months or so...).



I realize that I will be needing backup instruments to reliably fly in
IMC, that will come with time...what I need now is training and learned
proficiency.

Simulators can help with some types of proficiency. Let me know if you
want to talk about that.


Thanks,

Jamie A. Landers
PP-ASEL





--
Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Airplane
Sacramento, CA

Mark,

I thought the poster was asking about the use of the 430 as a stand-alone
unit with no other instrumentation.


That would not be an instrument-certified installation.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

John R. Copeland wrote On 12/06/05 16:03,:
"Mark Hansen" wrote in message ...

The 430 does not have a glide slope. It is not certified for use in
precision approaches. It does have a page that will show you the CDI
for tracking VOR and Localizers, etc.
--
Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Airplane



Garmin says the GNS 430 has a glide slope.
See the second sentence of the first paragraph at:
http://www.garmin.com/products/gns430/


I think they are talking about the wire that goes out. There is ZERO
GS indication on the unit itself.

wrote On 12/06/05 15:25,:
I have a VFR only 172 and I am considering IFR training.

I am looking for the most practical way to make my plane IFR certified
and useful.

At first glance, it appears to me that the Garmin 430 provides a LOT of
useful information for relatively not much money.

I have 2 questions though....

to use the glideslope / VOR / LOC functions of the 430, do I have to
have a glide slope indicator and VOR indicator or are these bits of
information displayed on hte 430 unit?

Is this one piece of equipment enough to enable my 172 to be instrument
certified?

I realize that I will be needing backup instruments to reliably fly in
IMC, that will come with time...what I need now is training and learned
proficiency.

Thanks,

Jamie A. Landers
PP-ASEL


My experience was probally typical. I had the 430 installed in a 172N
which only had the original crappy Cessna equipment, not even a GS
indicator. The 430 replaced one of the Cessna radios, and I decided to
go with an NSD-360 as the primary display for the GS and VOR. The aircraft
was certified for the first time as IFR equipped, which involved several
issues, not just the 430 installation.

The alternative would have been to install an advanced CDI/GS indicator,
either replacing the existing one, or adding to the non-GS unit. I choose
the NSD-360 because it added significantly to the situational awareness
of the aircraft, and I still think so.

Years later, during an electronics upgrade, the shop owner opined that
he didn't think the 430 was a valid installation because it didn't have
a separate "message" indicator (even though the 430 displays that on its
screen). I had him add that, its just a light front and center on the
panel.

Scott Moore wrote:
John R. Copeland wrote On 12/06/05 16:03,:

"Mark Hansen" wrote in message ...


The 430 does not have a glide slope. It is not certified for use in
precision approaches. It does have a page that will show you the CDI
for tracking VOR and Localizers, etc.
--
Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Airplane



Garmin says the GNS 430 has a glide slope.
See the second sentence of the first paragraph at:
http://www.garmin.com/products/gns430/



I think they are talking about the wire that goes out. There is ZERO
GS indication on the unit itself.

In order to be approved as an IFR installation the 430 has to drive an
external CDI or HSI where the G/S will be displayed.

Mitty wrote:



On 12/6/2005 5:25 PM, wrote the following:


At first glance, it appears to me that the Garmin 430 provides a LOT of
useful information for relatively not much money.


It's a great box. IMHO, anyway. I don't care so much for the SL30
nav/com but the 430 is very well thought out.

I have 2 questions though....

to use the glideslope / VOR / LOC functions of the 430, do I have to
have a glide slope indicator and VOR indicator or are these bits of
information displayed on hte 430 unit?


Contrary to a previous response, the G430 does have a glide slope
function as part of the VLOC function. At least the one that I fly with
does. The 430 does not indicate either the localizer or the glide slope
on its screen however. You need to buy the separate indicator (CDI).

Garmin has a free simulator and free downloads of the manuals from their
web site. Get the sim and the manuals and you can learn the box in
maybe 5 hours. Enough to get started flying with it and certainly
enough to evaluate it thoroughly. You should have someone who knows the
430 in the right seat for the first few flights IMHO.

Is this one piece of equipment enough to enable my 172 to be instrument
certified?


No. Required flight instruments are specified in Part 91.

In terms of required navigation devices and a reasonable platform for
instrument training the 430 would be sufficient along with a
transponder. Hmmm, maybe a marker beacon receiver, too, to placate a
picky examiner?