HURRICANE PROOF BUILDINGS

Wood is an amazing building material. A properly designed wooden
structure
will stand up to a hurricane just as well as a properly designed concrete
structure.

Do you think they know the code varies by county?
...........
In 1994, Broward and Miami-Dade counties adopted the nation's toughest
wind-speed codes, forcing new construction to withstand gusts up to
150 mph. It took another seven years of negotiations with building
industry lobbyists to enact a somewhat watered-down version with
significant upgrades largely confined to coastal areas.

Building industry leaders argued for less regulation for several
reasons -- primarily risk and expense.

Along most of the coast, including Charlotte and Lee counties, the new
code calls for 130-mph protection, the strength of a Category 3. It's
10 mph less in neighboring DeSoto County, home to Arcadia, and another
10 mph less in Orlando. Charley exploded on the coast like a 145-mph
bomb.
.......

If your house was designed for 100 mph and you get 145 mph, I don't
think concrete or wood will make a big difference.

Betsy ( in Apollo Beach with 70 % of windows still covered by
shutters)

geo wrote:
I'm not talking about cinder blocks. Reinforced concrete is by FAR the
strongest building material generally available and in the shape of a
dome
it's much stronger still. Given the same forces a stick home will be a
pile
of splinters while the dome is unscathed. The numbers have been done;
it's
not a mystery. http://www.monolithic.com/plan_desig...ive/index.html

"Matt Whiting" wrote in message
...
Define strongest? Tensile strength? Compressive strength? Stiffness?

Look it up. It's on the website.

"Matt Whiting" wrote in message
...


I've never seen a safe room as where I live we have safe basements!
However, that wasn't the point. The point was that some here have
claimed that concrete is somehow inherently stronger than wood and that
is simply rubbish.


OK, build a hurricane proof, tornado proof, fire proof, earthquake proof
wood home for the going rate (about $85. sq/ft).
http://www.monolithic.com/thedome/index.html,
http://www.monolithic.com/plan_design/FEMA/index.html. None are so blind...

"bci" wrote in message
If your house was designed for 100 mph and you get 145 mph, I don't
think concrete or wood will make a big difference.

You're wrong.

Designed to survive winds of up to 250 mph. Probably more depending on
design. http://www.monolithic.com/plan_design/FEMA/index.html

From: "geo"
Date: 8/22/2004 10:56 PM Central Daylight Time
Message-id: SVdWc.900$rT1.203@trndny02

"bci" wrote in message
If your house was designed for 100 mph and you get 145 mph, I don't
think concrete or wood will make a big difference.

You're wrong.

Designed to survive winds of up to 250 mph. Probably more depending on
design. http://www.monolithic.com/plan_design/FEMA/index.html

You keep posting links to that manufacturer's brochures. You have yet to
provide proof any have been built. Are you shilling for them? If so you should
be able to provide proof of it's toughness under storm conditions. Driving a
vehicle into one just isn't the same thing.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

"geo" wrote:

"Matt Whiting" wrote in message
...


I've never seen a safe room as where I live we have safe basements!
However, that wasn't the point. The point was that some here have
claimed that concrete is somehow inherently stronger than wood and that
is simply rubbish.


OK, build a hurricane proof, tornado proof, fire proof, earthquake proof
wood home for the going rate (about $85. sq/ft).
http://www.monolithic.com/thedome/index.html,
http://www.monolithic.com/plan_design/FEMA/index.html. None are so blind...


Just from observing this little spat, I have never seen Matt claim
that _dollar-for-dollar_ wood construction is as strong as concrete
construction for similarly-designed buildings. And the concrete
proponents seem bent on combining the dome design with the concrete
material in making their claim.

I suspect (but have seen nothing here to support or counter my
suspicion) that for similarly-designed buildings:
1) either material could make it just as strong, but
2) concrete might be more economical for a given strength of building,
particularly in areas without abundant lumber.


--
Alex
Make the obvious change in the return address to reply by email.

Ah... great as monolithic construction is... and as affordable as it
looks... it HAS to be a good deal right? It mentions being cheaper than
standard construction... but how big of a structure do you need for it to be
a break even point? Its a problem people run into a lot when considering
dome construction, they find that the finish out costs are going to be
significantly higher due to the curved interior surfaces, and high scrap
counts for carpet linoleum etc. Creates the same scenario that Log homes
do. Sure they are cheaper per square foot for the structure itself, but in
log homes by the time you add up all the specialty construciton inside you
run anywhere from 30%+ higher than frame construction. You run into a
similar situation with domes. Think about how you have to hang a window in
a dome, first you need to cut a hole in the shell, then somehow build in or
build out a "flat spot" for the glass (unless you want to lay LOADS more for
a custom built curved window), now that flat spot will likely be lumber
construction, and 100% custom. Interior framing, curved walls on the
perimeter of the shell, that are not only curved in a vertical aspect, but a
horizontal aspect as well, more custom construction. Tile flooring... no
simple straignt cuts on edge of tilefield, must carefully nip a curve into
the edge tiles. Carpet, you won't belivehow much carpet you pay for and
waste when carpet comes in square/rectangular sheets and you have to cut it
into a room wiht at least one curved wall (not to mention the installation
costs considering they have to lay many segments of tackstrip, and can't use
a simple straightedge to cust the scrapend of carpet. Same for linoleum
flooring. I personally thougth that they were very nice looking homes, and
a great concept, but when you sit down and really do the math, unless you
are building a fairly large structure (definately larger than a typical
single family home) you will pay a noticable ammount more for a monolithic
dome. (unsure about geodesics, but i personally think they are beyond
ugly). Also look at the homes on that website... those that are cheap look
like crapholes, the rest define homes that are beyond the financial means of
most families!)

Now then. Lets build a properly rated frame home, lumber in this stance.
Primary point of failure is either roof seperating and allowing walls to
collapse, or overpressure blasting in windows doors, and the supsequent
internal overpressure haveing disasterous effects on the home. Roofs are
easy to keep attatched now, hurricane ties have been required in home
construction in coastal areas for years now, and add very little cost to the
home. Simply anodized straps that grab the premade truss structure of roof,
or the rafters of build on site roofing, and tie it in to the sillplate of
perimiter walls, and many have one further tie down to the studs of that
wall. A surprisingly strong result, and hurricane prooven provided there is
not a window/door failure. (sure a few homes do fail anyway, but these
simple ties worked wonders for many people!) Now about the doors and
windows.... going to be a weak point in ANY home, I don't care how its
built. Thats why there are runs on plywood as hurricanes come in, and why
many people in hurricane areas spend the extra money on steel storm
shutters, and if desinged at construction time, the mounting brackets are
often built integrally to the wall for surprising strength. Other people
have moderate results with plywood, stops all but a direct 90deg hit by
debris (almost anything traveling at an angle will certainly gouge the
plywood, but usually be deflected away). The big problem is when people
build manufactured housing or mobil homes, especially the mobile homes where
skirting can get blown out, winds can get UNDER the structure and rock it
violently, sometimes rolling the structure over, walls are paper thin, even
outside walls, thickest i've seen has been 2x4 on the outside and vulnerable
to overpressure. Yet people still buy/build them right here in hurricane
alley. Thats what blows my mind. Most structural failures, fatalities
occur in mobile homes, yet any legistlation demanding improvements in
construction are typically very mild and useless overall. I have
personally seen areas where a tornado destroyed a trailerpark, the housing
edition next door suffered little more than shingle/window/tree damage, and
the next trailer park was obliviated as well. Its not cus trailers are
tornado magnets, but becaus they just can't stand the wind. Those frame
homes endured faster, more violent winds than experienced in a cat5
hurricane, yet damage was relatively minor. Looking at the damage footage
here in florida (and yes I do live in florida on the atlantic side, between
Cape Canaveral and Ft Lauderdale), winds and rain here were minor, but just
a couple of hours away it was much worse, the majority of structural
failures occured where older homes were, and where manufactured/mobile homes
were. I feel very bad for the people that lost everything, but at the same
time they took the same risk living in florida that I do. I am above worst
case storm surge (by about 5 feet!) but the sustained winds can easially
destroy my apartment (wind rating 110) but i choose to stay here and run the
risk, and if it gets blown to hell and all my stuff destroyed ( I won't be
here for it, I plan on leaving if anything stronger than a cat2 comes my
way) thats the risk I take.


"geo" wrote in message news:GMdWc.3343$VY.37@trndny09...
"Matt Whiting" wrote in message
...


I've never seen a safe room as where I live we have safe basements!
However, that wasn't the point. The point was that some here have
claimed that concrete is somehow inherently stronger than wood and that
is simply rubbish.


OK, build a hurricane proof, tornado proof, fire proof, earthquake proof
wood home for the going rate (about $85. sq/ft).
http://www.monolithic.com/thedome/index.html,
http://www.monolithic.com/plan_design/FEMA/index.html. None are so
blind...

geo wrote:
geo wrote:

I'm not talking about cinder blocks. Reinforced concrete is by FAR the
strongest building material generally available and in the shape of a

dome

it's much stronger still. Given the same forces a stick home will be a

pile

of splinters while the dome is unscathed. The numbers have been done;

it's

not a mystery. http://www.monolithic.com/plan_desig...ive/index.html

"Matt Whiting" wrote in message
...

Define strongest? Tensile strength? Compressive strength? Stiffness?


Look it up. It's on the website.



I know, but concrete isn't stronger than wood in all modes so I'm
wondering what you are talking about.


Matt

geo wrote:

"Matt Whiting" wrote in message
...


I've never seen a safe room as where I live we have safe basements!
However, that wasn't the point. The point was that some here have
claimed that concrete is somehow inherently stronger than wood and that
is simply rubbish.



OK, build a hurricane proof, tornado proof, fire proof, earthquake proof
wood home for the going rate (about $85. sq/ft).
http://www.monolithic.com/thedome/index.html,
http://www.monolithic.com/plan_design/FEMA/index.html. None are so blind...



I did. I live in a log house. It cost more than $85/sq ft, but then
around here every method costs more than that.


Matt

alexy wrote:

"geo" wrote:


"Matt Whiting" wrote in message
...


I've never seen a safe room as where I live we have safe basements!
However, that wasn't the point. The point was that some here have
claimed that concrete is somehow inherently stronger than wood and that
is simply rubbish.



OK, build a hurricane proof, tornado proof, fire proof, earthquake proof
wood home for the going rate (about $85. sq/ft).
http://www.monolithic.com/thedome/index.html,
http://www.monolithic.com/plan_design/FEMA/index.html. None are so blind...



Just from observing this little spat, I have never seen Matt claim
that _dollar-for-dollar_ wood construction is as strong as concrete
construction for similarly-designed buildings. And the concrete
proponents seem bent on combining the dome design with the concrete
material in making their claim.

You are precisely correct. I think I even said once that it was an
economic issue, not a strength of materials issue, but a number of folks
seem unable to comprehend that distinction.


Matt