Upside down flag

Heard a curious conversation on a late night talk show.
One of the speakers said: " If you ever see a warship
flying its national ensign (flag) upside down it means that
the crew has mutinied and taken over the vessel..." Is that true? If so, is
it a international sign known to all sailors
and what mutiny originated it?
Mike

"Mike Keown" wrote:

Heard a curious conversation on a late night talk show.
One of the speakers said: " If you ever see a warship
flying its national ensign (flag) upside down it means that
the crew has mutinied and taken over the vessel..." Is that true? If so, is
it a international sign known to all sailors
and what mutiny originated it?

I'd recommend you stop watching that late night talk show. It appears
to be a source of idiocy. Particularly if the host didn't apply a
sanity check to the assertion.

Think about it a little, and you'll see the story fails the sanity
check. What mutinous crew, having been successful in taking over a
ship, would *advertise* that fact to every ship in sight by flying
their ensign upside down? The *last* thing a group of successful
mutineers wants to do is call attention to themselves and their ship.
They just want to get to a safe haven as quickly and quietly as
possible.

OJ III

Mike Keown wrote:
Heard a curious conversation on a late night talk show.
One of the speakers said: " If you ever see a warship
flying its national ensign (flag) upside down it means that
the crew has mutinied and taken over the vessel..." Is that true? If
so, is it a international sign known to all sailors
and what mutiny originated it?
Mike

As an addendum to my other post, the usual story was of a ship boarded by
pirates and not a mutinous crew. Pirates, like most countries printing the
Union Jack wouldn't know upside down if it bit them on the arse!

Richard.

"Mike Keown" wrote in message
...
Heard a curious conversation on a late night talk show.
One of the speakers said: " If you ever see a warship
flying its national ensign (flag) upside down it means that
the crew has mutinied and taken over the vessel..." Is that true? If so,
is
it a international sign known to all sailors
and what mutiny originated it?
Mike

This (flying of a national standard upside-down) is an estblished
international practice at sea--and on land--designed to indicate that
despite appearances to the contrary, all is not well aboard ship or within
an encampment.

At sea, it is unlikely that mutineers would know so little about proper flag
display that they'd allow an ensign to fly upside down and hence draw
unwanted attention to their deed.

However, in the days of sail, a pirate might gain control of a merchant;
then, to disguise the change of ownership and avoid arousing unwanted
attention, he'd allow "normal" display of flags. Here an alert crew could
turn the tables by hoisting the ship's flag, only upside down. To a
poorly-educated pirate, it might not be crystal-clear that the ships'
ensign/flag can only be flown one way under "normal" circumstances or that a
flag being flown upside down was an indication of other than normal
circumstances, or distress, aboard ship.

I am not sure that a mutiny at sea inspired the practice. Instead it appears
to have begun with early merchant sailors (as early as or before the
Carthaginians, perhaps even as early as the Phoenicians), who learned to be
yary at the approach to any proximity on the high seas of any other vessel,
unless there were positive means of identification of the ship closing the
range; shape of the vessel was not always conclusive, as previous capture by
a hostile entity was always possible. The practice developed of a display of
signal flags. Any time a signal flag (including an identifying national
ensign) was improperly displayed constituted a warning that all was not well
aboard the displaying vessel and was taken as indicating that the range from
that vessel should be opened.

The same caution was indicated upon approaching a port or landing area. A
ship laden with valuable cargo wanted to be certain of who was in control of
the harbor; those in the harbor desired to have indication that any
approaching ship did not contain pirates intent on a raid or cutting-out
expedition.

I agree with you. It was a late night radio show and
I was driving home and although they are, as you say,
a 'source of idiocy' the statement did get my brain cells
going and kept me in my lane of the highway. Idiots do
have a function and at that time it was getting me home
in the same condition that I left.
Mike
"Ogden Johnson III" wrote in message
...
"Mike Keown" wrote:

Heard a curious conversation on a late night talk show.
One of the speakers said: " If you ever see a warship
flying its national ensign (flag) upside down it means that
the crew has mutinied and taken over the vessel..." Is that true? If so,
is
it a international sign known to all sailors
and what mutiny originated it?

I'd recommend you stop watching that late night talk show. It appears
to be a source of idiocy. Particularly if the host didn't apply a
sanity check to the assertion.

Think about it a little, and you'll see the story fails the sanity
check. What mutinous crew, having been successful in taking over a
ship, would *advertise* that fact to every ship in sight by flying
their ensign upside down? The *last* thing a group of successful
mutineers wants to do is call attention to themselves and their ship.
They just want to get to a safe haven as quickly and quietly as
possible.

OJ III

"Mike Keown" wrote in message
...

Heard a curious conversation on a late night talk show.
One of the speakers said: " If you ever see a warship
flying its national ensign (flag) upside down it means that
the crew has mutinied and taken over the vessel..." Is that true? If so,
is
it a international sign known to all sailors
and what mutiny originated it?


An upside down flag is a distress signal.

"Mike Keown" wrote in message
...
Heard a curious conversation on a late night talk show.
One of the speakers said: " If you ever see a warship
flying its national ensign (flag) upside down it means that
the crew has mutinied and taken over the vessel..." Is that true? If so,
is
it a international sign known to all sailors
and what mutiny originated it?

Never heard that myself and it would seem to be a silly thing to do if
you're a mutineer. Anyone could tell you had mutinied and may therefore not
be trusted (or an obvious enemy to be captured).

AFAIK an inverted flag has always been the internationally recognised symbol
for distress. Too bad if you have a laterally symetrical flag
...........Perhaps it's a British thing, as most naval flags have a UJ in the
corner which would be noticable if inverted.

Anyhow, now I'll read the other responses and find out how wrong I
am...................... :-)


--
The Raven
http://www.80scartoons.co.uk/batfinkquote.mp3
** President of the ozemail.* and uunet.* NG's
** since August 15th 2000.

"The Raven" wrote in message
...
"Mike Keown" wrote in message
...
Heard a curious conversation on a late night talk show.
One of the speakers said: " If you ever see a warship
flying its national ensign (flag) upside down it means that
the crew has mutinied and taken over the vessel..." Is that true? If so,
is
it a international sign known to all sailors
and what mutiny originated it?

Never heard that myself and it would seem to be a silly thing to do if
you're a mutineer. Anyone could tell you had mutinied and may therefore
not
be trusted (or an obvious enemy to be captured).


Unless you WANT people to know your a mutineer

The ships taken over by mutineers at the Nore ran up
red flags IRC

Keith

"Keith Willshaw" wrote in message
...

"The Raven" wrote in message
...
"Mike Keown" wrote in message
...
Heard a curious conversation on a late night talk show.
One of the speakers said: " If you ever see a warship
flying its national ensign (flag) upside down it means that
the crew has mutinied and taken over the vessel..." Is that true? If
so,
is
it a international sign known to all sailors
and what mutiny originated it?

Never heard that myself and it would seem to be a silly thing to do if
you're a mutineer. Anyone could tell you had mutinied and may therefore
not
be trusted (or an obvious enemy to be captured).


Unless you WANT people to know your a mutineer

The ships taken over by mutineers at the Nore ran up
red flags IRC


There may be instances where you'd want to identify yourself as a mutineer
or defector but, on the whole it's probably uncommon.


--
The Raven
http://www.80scartoons.co.uk/batfinkquote.mp3
** President of the ozemail.* and uunet.* NG's
** since August 15th 2000.

A flag flown up-side down is a distress signal. Or, a mistake.
Dave

http://hometown.aol.com/davplac/myhomepage/index.html