ADF in Europe

On 8/25/2005 14:33, Peter wrote:

Mark Hansen wrote

If you're flying a GPS approach at your primary airport, the alternate
airport must have a non-GPS IAP. If the only non-GPS IAP requires DME,
then you need to have DME operational in the aircraft.

Thank you for saving me looking this up However, I get the
impression that Americans worry about this detail about as much as
Europeans worry about carrying an ADF when doing NDB approaches


Also note that this is a consideration for the selection of the
airport as an alternate. Once you get to the airport, you land
any which way you want (using GPS, etc.).

--
Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Student
Sacramento, CA

On 8/25/2005 14:49, Peter wrote:

Mark Hansen wrote

Well, as a student, I have to worry about all the rules equally ;-)

You can imagine the fun that a European pilot has at the FAA IR oral
Or indeed the FAA PPL oral.

The examiner of course knows that no matter how many hours the pilot
has, he won't know anything about roughly 40% of the material unless
he has been reading the books over and over and over.


I was coming to that conclusion after listening to this thread today.
I guess I'm lucky that I can't afford to fly outside of the U.S. ;-)

--
Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Student
Sacramento, CA

Peter wrote:
Mark Hansen wrote


If you're flying a GPS approach at your primary airport, the alternate
airport must have a non-GPS IAP. If the only non-GPS IAP requires DME,
then you need to have DME operational in the aircraft.


Thank you for saving me looking this up However, I get the
impression that Americans worry about this detail about as much as
Europeans worry about carrying an ADF when doing NDB approaches

If your GPS is WAAS capable then the requirement goes away in the US.

On 25 Aug 2005 11:39:37 -0700, "gwengler" wrote:

The new Mooney Ovation2GX, with long-range tanks, has more than enough range to make that flight.

How much fuel would you have in total including the long range tanks?

Gerd

With the long range tanks, the total fuel capacity is 130 gallons. That
gives a maximum range (with reserves) of 2400NM. Although I could make it
non-stop from my home base, I would plan a fuel stop at CYYT (St. John's,
NF), from which LPL is "only" about 1250 NM.


Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA)

On Thu, 25 Aug 2005 15:44:01 +0100, Peter wrote:

A DME is IMHO a lot more important than an ADF - again in the event of
a GPS failure, or a RAIM failure. Even in the USA, no-DME restricts
the choice of a destination/alternate, IIRC.

I don't believe there is any restriction for destinations, so long as the
location of the DME fix is in the GPS receiver's database.

For alternates there is some kind of requirement for a non-GPS approach if
one is using a TSO129 box. But the TSO146 (WAAS) boxes have no requirement
for a non-GPS approach at alternates. My experience has been with a
CNX80/GNS480 so I'm not really up on the non-WAAS stuff.


Americans must be really taking the **** reading all this crap... but
in Europe, one spends most of the time without any radar service (even
when IFR, in the UK) so it's different to the USA.

I don't mind non-radar at all. But it sure seems as if European GA has a
lot more restrictions than we do.
Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA)

On Thu, 25 Aug 2005 12:35:35 -0700, Mark Hansen
wrote:

On 8/25/2005 11:37, gwengler wrote:

Even in the USA, no-DME restricts the choice of a destination/alternate, IIRC.

How so?

Gerd


If you're flying a GPS approach at your primary airport, the alternate
airport must have a non-GPS IAP. If the only non-GPS IAP requires DME,
then you need to have DME operational in the aircraft.

Keep in mind that I did not cite all the rules/regs concerning this
issue, just the part that illustrates this point.

Mark,

That's true for most GPS receivers certified under TSO 129, but not true
for WAAS enabled units certified under TSO 146.


Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA)

On Thu, 25 Aug 2005 15:07:07 +0100, Peter wrote:


Ron Rosenfeld wrote:

Thank you for that information. And I'll guess that the ferry pilot was
probably flying an N-registered a/c, so I'm guessing the regulation applies
to all.

Yes, the SR20 is EASA certified but the SR22 isn't (yet).

The SR20 got certified only over the dead body of some of the European
CAAs, whose view is that a parachute isn't something a proper pilot
should be provided with

My wife is from the Azores, and it is possible we may go there for extended
periods (e.g. several months). If we do, from what I have read, I would be
able to fly IFR (and night) in my N-registered a/c with my FAA license;
where I would not have those privileges in a Portugese registered a/c
unless I took some onerous tests.

To fly IFR in a Portugese reg aircraft you will need the JAA IR.

You can get that from the FAA IR with a (minimum) of 15hrs additional
flight training, plus the entire JAA PPL/IR ground school; approx 10
of the 14 ATPL ground exams.

You will also need a JAA PPL to attach it to; a few hours' flying and
a checkride, plus probably all the 6 (7?) PPL ground exams.

You could file an IFR-VFR flight plan; so long as you are VFR at the
European FIR boundary and thereafter, you are legal.

In practice, as any European "VFR" pilot with actual instrument skills
and a suitable aircraft knows, you've got to be VFR where you might
get caught, so an IFR approach (ILS etc) is out of the question given
you aren't on an IFR FP by then. So you have to make sure you are VFR
say 10-20 miles out, and preferably out of CAS, and definitely below
Class A

I've done this sort of thing 100% legally off Italy, flying some 100
miles at 1000ft above the sea, 30 miles offshore so out of VHF radio
contact. Americans have it pretty good!

The new Mooney Ovation2GX, with long-range tanks, has more than enough
range to make that flight. Now I just have to figure out how to pay for it
:-).

Marry a richer woman

It will go across the Atlantic?? What about the winds when going East?

I don't believe folk fly in the winter, when the winds are strongest. But
there are no legs to Europe longer than CYYT-LPL (St. John's, NF -- Lajes
Field, Azores) and that's only 1/2 the maximum range of the a/c.

I may have missed this bit, so let me ask again: Is it a true statement
that, so long as I have the required equipment, I can exercise my FAA IFR
privileges in Europe so long as I am flying an N-registered a/c?

Thanks.


Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA)

Ron,

Is it a true statement
that, so long as I have the required equipment, I can exercise my FAA IFR
privileges in Europe so long as I am flying an N-registered a/c?


Yes.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

I'v flown a couple of Austrian-registered Diamond Stars here in the US.
They had ADF and DME. My Star was built in Austria and has DME, but I
didn't have them install the ADF (although the ground plane and
attachment pad for the ADF antenna are there).


Yes, but did they also have the G1000?

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

On Fri, 26 Aug 2005 07:14:03 +0100, Peter wrote:


Ron Rosenfeld wrote

I may have missed this bit, so let me ask again: Is it a true statement
that, so long as I have the required equipment, I can exercise my FAA IFR
privileges in Europe so long as I am flying an N-registered a/c?

Yes.

This link might have useful info for European IFR

http://www.peter2000.co.uk/aviation/...fr-flying.html

Thank you for that link.
Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA)