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Private airport or small field for landout?



 
 
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  #21  
Old May 26th 20, 02:58 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
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Default Private airport or small field for landout?

On Tuesday, May 26, 2020 at 8:33:49 AM UTC-4, wrote:
Just curious - would you really have to explain your decision-making to an insurance adjuster? Could they deny a claim due to a bad choice? I'd think that, as long as you weren't breaking any rules, they'd have to pay the claim.


Feel free to substitute partner, wife, or accident investigator. The point is the same.
UH
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  #22  
Old May 26th 20, 03:43 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
6PK
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Default Private airport or small field for landout?

On Monday, May 25, 2020 at 2:35:28 PM UTC-7, Charles Ethridge wrote:
Hi all.

I'm a former cfi-i/mei and commercial glider pilot, but I've never gone cross-country in my PW-5 glider. Training up for it though. A question:

If you are in an area where the fields are small, but there are several private airfields around, which should be your priority?

Seems to me that the private airport would be safer, assuming you have enough altitude to overfly it. Also I notice that my (new) Oudie2 shows all the private airstrips around as potential landout spots.

Will you get in trouble (legal or financial) if you have to landout at a private airport (assuming you aren't declaring an emergency, of course)?

Ben


No substitute for setting foot on any possible landing area (open fields or private airports) first prior to considering it safe other than PUBLISHED PUBLIC airports...period
  #23  
Old May 26th 20, 04:20 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Tango Eight
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Default Private airport or small field for landout?

On Tuesday, May 26, 2020 at 10:43:27 AM UTC-4, 6PK wrote:
On Monday, May 25, 2020 at 2:35:28 PM UTC-7, Charles Ethridge wrote:
Hi all.

I'm a former cfi-i/mei and commercial glider pilot, but I've never gone cross-country in my PW-5 glider. Training up for it though. A question:

If you are in an area where the fields are small, but there are several private airfields around, which should be your priority?

Seems to me that the private airport would be safer, assuming you have enough altitude to overfly it. Also I notice that my (new) Oudie2 shows all the private airstrips around as potential landout spots.

Will you get in trouble (legal or financial) if you have to landout at a private airport (assuming you aren't declaring an emergency, of course)?

Ben


No substitute for setting foot on any possible landing area (open fields or private airports) first prior to considering it safe other than PUBLISHED PUBLIC airports...period


You have to be careful with public use airports, as well. You even have to be careful with notams.

A few years ago I checked notams on an early Saturday morning, there was over a page of them for Morrisville, VT. VASIs out of service (x2), runway lights out of service, taxiway lights out of service, runway end identifier lights out of service (x2), beacon out of service, on and on and ON. What do I care about any of that stuff? Later that afternoon as MVL came into view, I was astonished -- the freaking runway was GONE. Pulverised. Carted away. Big equipment all over the place. That evening I looked at Notams again. The significant bit was hiding in the middle of that page and a half of useless text. It was the shortest notam of the bunch. "arpt clsd". And I missed it. No serious concern in this case, there are landable fields in the area.

Any time you glide to a location that has only one place to land, you put yourself at heightened risk. Try not to do that unless you have known current, good intel. Arriving over the only good place to land within reach, then suddenly discovering that it isn't the good place to land you thought... is the wrong kind of exciting.

T8
  #24  
Old May 26th 20, 05:13 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Roy B.
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Default Private airport or small field for landout?

Amen to Evan's comments about airports. And - don't believe contest databases about what is an "airfield" either. Last year at the Hobbs 18m Nationals I was faced with a doubtful final glide into wind and diverted to the "private airfield" in the contest database called "Two Leggs". Guess what? Hadn't been there for 20 years. I landed in a newly planted cotton field. Nice farmer pulled me out.
ROY
  #25  
Old May 26th 20, 05:26 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
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Default Private airport or small field for landout?



I learned to fly gliders in Miami FL, where the is effectively no cross country due to the terrain (or lack of it :-)). After I got good enough to stay up thermaling for several hours at a time, I decided it was time to move the glider to a place where I could learn to fly cross country, so I moved it to Atlanta. Unfortunately, the coronavirus hit and all the clubs are effectively closed to me while I'm sheltering-in-place.

From reading soaring books and articles such as Kai Gersten's "Off-Airport Landings", I always just assumed that you could never RELY on local knowledge and that there is a good probability that one day you will need to simply pick a field or private airport, especially on long cross countries, or cross countries where bad weather has caused you to deviate far from the task line.

Ben


Hi Ben,

Mid Georgia Soaring Association (www.soar-mgsa.org) is 1 hour east of Atlanta, and they are operating again with special procedures. Last weekend they did training flights to get everyone current for the year. They are also an amazing club to learn cross country. They host a XC camp every year in Cordele, GA, and one the main reasons its held there is because its surrounded by a lot of landable fields, which gives people . I've landed out twice there in unknown fields. Its not encouraged to go land in random fields by any means, but the knowledge and skills needed to make a judgment to find a field and land in it are taught because it's assumed if you do any sort of cross country flying in the southeast, you'll probably find yourself needed to land in a field at some point.

  #26  
Old May 26th 20, 06:21 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Mike the Strike
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Default Private airport or small field for landout?

On Tuesday, May 26, 2020 at 9:26:20 AM UTC-7, wrote:

I learned to fly gliders in Miami FL, where the is effectively no cross country due to the terrain (or lack of it :-)). After I got good enough to stay up thermaling for several hours at a time, I decided it was time to move the glider to a place where I could learn to fly cross country, so I moved it to Atlanta. Unfortunately, the coronavirus hit and all the clubs are effectively closed to me while I'm sheltering-in-place.

From reading soaring books and articles such as Kai Gersten's "Off-Airport Landings", I always just assumed that you could never RELY on local knowledge and that there is a good probability that one day you will need to simply pick a field or private airport, especially on long cross countries, or cross countries where bad weather has caused you to deviate far from the task line.

Ben


Hi Ben,

Mid Georgia Soaring Association (www.soar-mgsa.org) is 1 hour east of Atlanta, and they are operating again with special procedures. Last weekend they did training flights to get everyone current for the year. They are also an amazing club to learn cross country. They host a XC camp every year in Cordele, GA, and one the main reasons its held there is because its surrounded by a lot of landable fields, which gives people . I've landed out twice there in unknown fields. Its not encouraged to go land in random fields by any means, but the knowledge and skills needed to make a judgment to find a field and land in it are taught because it's assumed if you do any sort of cross country flying in the southeast, you'll probably find yourself needed to land in a field at some point.


I've landed at a number of private airstrips - including some not far from Atlanta - and have always been welcomed. My best experience was landing at a residential airport community in a remote area of Arizona on May 5th - as I exited the runway onto a houses's front lawn, the owner came out with a cold beer and welcomed me to the Cinco de Mayo party - my crew joined me later! My worst experience was a farm strip close to the Mexican border that turned out to be a haven for smugglers.

Unless the strip is long-abandoned and overgrown, you're almost certain to be better off than landing in a field.

One final bit of advice - don't land in an asparagus field! It's an expensive crop and you will definitely **** off the farmer!

Mike
  #27  
Old May 26th 20, 06:41 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
2G
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Default Private airport or small field for landout?

On Monday, May 25, 2020 at 2:35:28 PM UTC-7, Charles Ethridge wrote:
Hi all.

I'm a former cfi-i/mei and commercial glider pilot, but I've never gone cross-country in my PW-5 glider. Training up for it though. A question:

If you are in an area where the fields are small, but there are several private airfields around, which should be your priority?

Seems to me that the private airport would be safer, assuming you have enough altitude to overfly it. Also I notice that my (new) Oudie2 shows all the private airstrips around as potential landout spots.

Will you get in trouble (legal or financial) if you have to landout at a private airport (assuming you aren't declaring an emergency, of course)?

Ben


The general rule of thumb is "You can't get hurt in the dirt." The majority of private airstrips are unsuitable for gliders (maybe a PW5). If you do consider it, visit the strip and take photos and notes for reference. Over time you can build a database of suitable strips. At a minimum look at the strip with Google Earth. Just committing to a strip that is listed as R on the chart is a definite crap shoot. A plowed field is a safer choice (although you will have to clean the glider afterwards.

BTW, how "small" are you talking about?

Tom
  #28  
Old May 26th 20, 07:23 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
AS
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Default Private airport or small field for landout?

On Tuesday, May 26, 2020 at 10:43:27 AM UTC-4, 6PK wrote:
On Monday, May 25, 2020 at 2:35:28 PM UTC-7, Charles Ethridge wrote:
Hi all.

I'm a former cfi-i/mei and commercial glider pilot, but I've never gone cross-country in my PW-5 glider. Training up for it though. A question:

If you are in an area where the fields are small, but there are several private airfields around, which should be your priority?

Seems to me that the private airport would be safer, assuming you have enough altitude to overfly it. Also I notice that my (new) Oudie2 shows all the private airstrips around as potential landout spots.

Will you get in trouble (legal or financial) if you have to landout at a private airport (assuming you aren't declaring an emergency, of course)?

Ben


No substitute for setting foot on any possible landing area (open fields or private airports) first prior to considering it safe other than PUBLISHED PUBLIC airports...period


Amen to that! A good example is Estancia Municipal in NM, just a hop and a skip south of Moriarty. It was always advertised as landable for gliders by the locals. On a day with not so good weather (hard to imagine but they do exist in NM!), I took a drive down there to see it from the ground. I am glad I did! The runway is narrow and there is a berm on one side. A =15m ship may be ok but a 20+m with low wings like mine may be in trouble.

Uli
'AS'

P.S.: the 'The Old Mill' restaurant on Rt.41 in Estancia has excellent Mexican food, which made the trip even worth more! :-)
  #29  
Old May 26th 20, 07:27 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Tango Eight
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Default Private airport or small field for landout?

On Tuesday, May 26, 2020 at 12:13:42 PM UTC-4, Roy B. wrote:
Amen to Evan's comments about airports. And - don't believe contest databases about what is an "airfield" either. Last year at the Hobbs 18m Nationals I was faced with a doubtful final glide into wind and diverted to the "private airfield" in the contest database called "Two Leggs". Guess what? Hadn't been there for 20 years. I landed in a newly planted cotton field. Nice farmer pulled me out.
ROY


lol... You probably landed in the same field I did (in 2013) after the same search for the same non-existent, "No Leggs" airport.

T8
  #30  
Old May 26th 20, 08:19 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
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Default Private airport or small field for landout?

What some of us have been doing here in eastern Colorado is going on 'Adventure Tours'. On non fly days we drive around and scope out the private strips as well as strips we know of that aren't in any aeronautical database. What we've found is that many of the mapped airports and private airports are no longer usable. On the other hand we've found several very nice private strips. When possible we try to contact the owner to see if landing there is okay. The answer usually is 'Anytime!'. We're slowly working up a database of where to land as well as where NOT to land.

Mark
Black Forest Soaring Society
 




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