Suggestion: wind energy will make gliders cheaper

Sailplane designers,

Modern wind turbine blades are strikingly similar to glider wings.
They are now now coming out in sizes approaching 50 meters. The market
expansion for wind energy is expected to grow rapidly. The ensuing
economies of scale from mass produced wind turbine blades just might
offer significant cost advantages to glider manufactures.

I realize the "flight" regime of a glider wing and turbine blade are
not exactly the same but the cost advantage could be so significant
that the compromise is acceptable; you decide. Also many requirements
ARE the same: lightweight, long, strong, and low maintenance. Back to
cost reduction, economies of scale can reduce manufacturing costs for
things like CRTs factors of 1,000th to 100,000. Imagine a glider
market with wings costing 100th of what they cost now (would we throw
away wings like razor blades when they start crazing - crazy?).

Used as wing turbine blades would require regulatory approval (or do
they if used on an ultralight?). That could kill the idea right there.


In fact this idea is just CRAZY so don't bother telling me its crazy
and why it can't work. There are dozens of reasons not to consider
this. Nonetheless, I'm tossing this out so that some glider designer
might have in the back of his/her mind and some day pursue it in case
there is one way it might work.

Here is a list of the current wind turbine manufacturers in order of
2005 market sha
1. Vestas Wind Systems (Denmark)
http://www.vestas.com/uk/Home/index.asp
2. Gamesa Corporation Tecnologica (Spain)
http://www.gamesa.es/gamesa/index.html
3. LM Glasfiber (Denmark)
http://www.lmglasfiber.com/DK/home/default.htm

Largest US manufacturer:
GE Energy - wind arm (USA)
http://www.gepower.com/about/info/en/windmill.htm

Have fun,
Richard

In article . com,
"RichardFreytag" wrote:

Sailplane designers,

Modern wind turbine blades are strikingly similar to glider wings.
They are now now coming out in sizes approaching 50 meters. The market
expansion for wind energy is expected to grow rapidly. The ensuing
economies of scale from mass produced wind turbine blades just might
offer significant cost advantages to glider manufactures.

I realize the "flight" regime of a glider wing and turbine blade are
not exactly the same but the cost advantage could be so significant
that the compromise is acceptable; you decide. Also many requirements
ARE the same: lightweight, long, strong, and low maintenance. Back to
cost reduction, economies of scale can reduce manufacturing costs for
things like CRTs factors of 1,000th to 100,000. Imagine a glider
market with wings costing 100th of what they cost now (would we throw
away wings like razor blades when they start crazing - crazy?).

Used as wing turbine blades would require regulatory approval (or do
they if used on an ultralight?). That could kill the idea right there.


In fact this idea is just CRAZY so don't bother telling me its crazy
and why it can't work. There are dozens of reasons not to consider
this. Nonetheless, I'm tossing this out so that some glider designer
might have in the back of his/her mind and some day pursue it in case
there is one way it might work.

The idea won't work for one very simple reason: twist.

I wind turbine blade has twist to compensate for the varying apparent
wind angle, since the blade is moving much faster across the wind at its
tip than it is at its root.


Here is a list of the current wind turbine manufacturers in order of
2005 market sha
1. Vestas Wind Systems (Denmark)
http://www.vestas.com/uk/Home/index.asp
2. Gamesa Corporation Tecnologica (Spain)
http://www.gamesa.es/gamesa/index.html
3. LM Glasfiber (Denmark)
http://www.lmglasfiber.com/DK/home/default.htm

Largest US manufacturer:
GE Energy - wind arm (USA)
http://www.gepower.com/about/info/en/windmill.htm

Have fun,
Richard

--
Alan Baker
Vancouver, British Columbia
"If you raise the ceiling 4 feet, move the fireplace from that wall
to that wall, you'll still only get the full stereophonic effect
if you sit in the bottom of that cupboard."

I was curious who would come back within 14 minutes to confirm what a
crazy idea I had so I typed 'Alan Baker' into the Google Groups search
field. Interesting reading.

You're right Alan, using wind turbine blades on gliders just can't
work. grin

Cheers,
Richard

In article .com,
"RichardFreytag" wrote:

I was curious who would come back within 14 minutes to confirm what a
crazy idea I had so I typed 'Alan Baker' into the Google Groups search
field. Interesting reading.

How exactly did you know to type 'Alan Baker', hmmm? g


You're right Alan, using wind turbine blades on gliders just can't
work. grin

Cheers,
Richard

--
Alan Baker
Vancouver, British Columbia
"If you raise the ceiling 4 feet, move the fireplace from that wall
to that wall, you'll still only get the full stereophonic effect
if you sit in the bottom of that cupboard."

RichardFreytag wrote:
Modern wind turbine blades are strikingly similar to glider wings.
They are now now coming out in sizes approaching 50 meters. The market
expansion for wind energy is expected to grow rapidly. The ensuing
economies of scale from mass produced wind turbine blades just might
offer significant cost advantages to glider manufactures.

Nice idea, but among other things, a turbine blade is designed to cope
with the fact that the effective airspeed of the inner portion of the
"wing" is always somewhat less than the outer portion. If you look at
one up close, you'll notice it has a good deal of twist. They also use
differing airfoils along the length of the blade. Finally, I suspect
they are a good deal heavier than what we would need.

By the way, one of the oddest things I've seen on the tracks through the
waterfront in downtown Oakland (California), was what turned out to be a
train load of large unassembled wind turbines headed somewhere up north...

Marc

"Nice idea, but among other things, a turbine blade is designed to cope
with the fact that the effective airspeed of the inner portion of the
"wing" is always somewhat less than the outer portion"

Not a problem, as long as you always thermal in the same direction.

Of course you'd fall out of the sky if you tried to fly straight, kind
of like a PW5.

I began thinking about how to couple that light little glider with a similarly light and portable "simulator" structure. I was looking for a complete setup that could be easily carried a long distance by one person in one trip so it could be set up in a park or on campus or in a shopping center.

The blades themselves are not useful as glider wings but some parts of the
manufacturing base that makes them might be adapted to produce wings.

"RichardFreytag" wrote in message
ups.com...
Sailplane designers,

Modern wind turbine blades are strikingly similar to glider wings.
They are now now coming out in sizes approaching 50 meters. The market
expansion for wind energy is expected to grow rapidly. The ensuing
economies of scale from mass produced wind turbine blades just might
offer significant cost advantages to glider manufactures.

I realize the "flight" regime of a glider wing and turbine blade are
not exactly the same but the cost advantage could be so significant
that the compromise is acceptable; you decide. Also many requirements
ARE the same: lightweight, long, strong, and low maintenance. Back to
cost reduction, economies of scale can reduce manufacturing costs for
things like CRTs factors of 1,000th to 100,000. Imagine a glider
market with wings costing 100th of what they cost now (would we throw
away wings like razor blades when they start crazing - crazy?).

Used as wing turbine blades would require regulatory approval (or do
they if used on an ultralight?). That could kill the idea right there.


In fact this idea is just CRAZY so don't bother telling me its crazy
and why it can't work. There are dozens of reasons not to consider
this. Nonetheless, I'm tossing this out so that some glider designer
might have in the back of his/her mind and some day pursue it in case
there is one way it might work.

Here is a list of the current wind turbine manufacturers in order of
2005 market sha
1. Vestas Wind Systems (Denmark)
http://www.vestas.com/uk/Home/index.asp
2. Gamesa Corporation Tecnologica (Spain)
http://www.gamesa.es/gamesa/index.html
3. LM Glasfiber (Denmark)
http://www.lmglasfiber.com/DK/home/default.htm

Largest US manufacturer:
GE Energy - wind arm (USA)
http://www.gepower.com/about/info/en/windmill.htm

Have fun,
Richard

Bill Daniels wrote:

The blades themselves are not useful as glider wings but some parts of the
manufacturing base that makes them might be adapted to produce wings.

Other way around, perhaps? I "read" (my German is very rudimentary)a
history of Schempp-Hirth a few years ago and saw photos of wind turbine
blades being manufactured some time in the late 50s/early 60s. Does
anybody have any details?

I also understand that a lot of glider wing aerodynamics is actually a
spinoff from research paid for by wind turbine builders. Eppler, for
one, did turbine work I believe. Again, does anyone know any facts?

GC

I remember seeing wood-epoxy wind-turbine blades being built at Gudgeon
Bros. in Bay City, MI in the seventies. Their primary business at the time
was building cold-molded DN iceboats, multihull ocean racers and packaging
and selling WEST System epoxy. Meade Gudgeon said they got the windmill
business because of their demonstrated ability to build long, thin, light
hydrodynamically efficient structures. My guess would be that the windmill
folks learned more from the sailboat and glider folks than the other way
round.

Ray Warshaw
1LK

"Graeme Cant" wrote in message
...
Bill Daniels wrote:

The blades themselves are not useful as glider wings but some parts of
the
manufacturing base that makes them might be adapted to produce wings.

Other way around, perhaps? I "read" (my German is very rudimentary)a
history of Schempp-Hirth a few years ago and saw photos of wind turbine
blades being manufactured some time in the late 50s/early 60s. Does
anybody have any details?

I also understand that a lot of glider wing aerodynamics is actually a
spinoff from research paid for by wind turbine builders. Eppler, for one,
did turbine work I believe. Again, does anyone know any facts?

GC