For Keith Willshaw...

Yes folks, if Denyav can forget about him deleting the text he can
simply pretend it did not happen. He started off passing Pearl
Harbor the movie as a source of facts and now finds the real
facts are coming out, so rewind to those simpler movie days."

Again to many words to hide the forest.

Lets see now, I have mentioned for quite some time the failure to
change additive books in December 1941.

No,you did not ,because you knew what did it mean

Sigh, I keep telling you the additive book was not changed for the first
two months as for why you would have to ask the IJN, presumably an
administrative foul up.


No you never mentioned this issue before I pressed.Another indicator that you
know exactly what to hide.

Now tell us all how this meant the allies gained the complete code
book in 2 months. Not just a list of valid code groups.


First of all the two month period refers to use of old book by Japanase after
introduction of JN25B.
On plain English that means the Japanase continued to blunder away JN25 B
continuously for two months.
Of course US did not completed code recovering within two months,this work
continued.
In Nov.41 ,US was able to read 90% of JN25B coded messages.(Ditto for Brits and
Dutch)
BTW you did not even need complete code book to read the most of messages.
I am pretty sure that you are also aware what Safford asserted in 1941,but you
did and wont mention in any of your messages.Lets refresh your memory:

"A large JN25 code as many as 55000 values.But in actual practice,such was the
streoteyped nature of the text ,7000 recoveries permitted almost complete
decyrption,and many pattern messages could be read practically entire with as
few as 1500 meanings"
(History of OP-20-GYP1,NSA)

The idea the Japanese might improve the system is dismissed.

They indeed improved it but they committed one of the most stupit acts of WWII
during the process of improvement and they blundered away the improved system.

imple really, fail to mention Churchill noted what the allies
had read they put into the public arena in 1946. Otherwise
the conspiracy requires Churchill to be alternatively the truth
bringer and telling lies.


So Churchill lied on one page and told the truth on another page,(Your truth
of Course).

You mean Yamamoto's letters to his staff were sent in JN-25B?
The couriered messages were in JN-25B?

This is really funny.

Couriered messages?
Did you tell Yamamato that JN25 B broken?
They all were radioed messages.

None of the messages found in the "Pre-Pearl Harbor Japanese Naval
Dispatches" file mention Pearl Harbor by name. (This file is found in
National Archives at College Park, RG 38, Crane Files, CNSG 5830/115; most
of the messages have also have been reprinted in "Pearl Harbor Revisited:
United States Navy Communications Intelligence, 1924-1941," an unclassified
monograph published by the National Security Agency in 1994.)"


Quite correct,but you again forgat to mention WHY the NONE of mentioned
Pre-Pearl Harbor messages are available in College Park.

Lets refresh your memory again:
Does almost three dozen withdrawal notices issued by NSA after the release of
"Days of Deceipt" remind you something?

Persons who claim that they are not available in College Park,must also tell
why they are being withdrawn by NSA.

Simple really, fail to mention Churchill noted what the allies
had read they put into the public arena in 1946. Otherwise
the conspiracy requires Churchill to be alternatively the truth
bringer and telling lies.

And remember the IJN had more than 1 code in service, as
did the IJA, but just pretend Churchill's first quote has an
extra line with JN-25B in it.

Hard to break JN25B code is an urban legend created in Washington
D.C.to cover treason.

Translation telling lies about JN-25 is an attempt to cover someone's
inability to cope with reality.


Well, the current custodians of Pearl Harbor conspiracy seemingly are not as
honest as Churchill or Stimson,they at least honestly admitted it, or as caring
as FDR,he did not inform Honululu about attack and made it happen,but he
secretly contacted Red Cross before attack and told them to get prepared for
attack,I would call him a really caring President.



"FDR stated that we were likely to be attacked perhaps as soon as next
Monday..The question was how should we maneuver them into position of firing
the first shot without too much danger to ourselves.In spite of risk involved
,however,in letting Japanase to fire the first shot,we realized that in order
to have full support of the American people it was desirable to make sure that
the Japanase be the ones to do this so that there should remain no doubt in
anyone's mind as to who were the Aggressors"

Henry Stimson ,The Secretary of War,Nov.25,1941

the claims about the war warning message text, dropped after the
war warning text was actually posted. (the warnings are supposed to
make Pearl Harbor the only targe

Naval Court of Inqury exonarated Kimmel because they consider so called War
Message as an attempt to direct the attention away from Pearl Harbor rather
than warning.

1)Nov.25: Yamamato's Target Pearl Harbor message to the First Air Fleet
intercepted and read

2)Nov.26: So called War Warning message designed to draw attention away from
Pearl Harbor issued

3)Nov.26: Merchant shipping routes in Pasific changed so that Japanase Task
Force could sail to Hawaii without being seen by allied Merchant ships.

4)But caring US president did not forget to ask Red Cross to prepare secretly
for the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor eight days before Pearl Harbor attack.

Conspiracy is wrong word to define Pearl Harbor incident.There is no conspiracy
at all.Everything is honestly and simply planned and many times admitted.


"FDR stated that we were likely to be attacked perhaps as soon as next
Monday..The question was how we should maneuver into the position firing the
first shot without too much danger to ourselves.
In spite of risk involved,however,in letting the Japanase to fire the first
shot,we realized that in order to have full support of the American people,it
was desirable to make sure that the Japanase be the ones to do this so that
there should remain no doubt in anyone's mind as to who were the Aggressors"

Henry Stimson,Nov.25,1941


"As America becomes an increasingly multicultural society,it may find it more
difficult to fashion consensus on foreign policy issues,except in yhe
circumstances of a truly massive and widely perceived direct external threat"

Zbigniew Brzezinski, The Grand Chessboard,1997

"..the process of transformation..is likely to be long one,absent some
catastrophic and catalyzing event-like a new Pearl Harbor"

Rebuilding Americas Defenses,Sep.2000

"The other day a reporter friend told me that one of the highest ranking CIA
officials had said to him,off the record,when the dust finally clears the
Americans will see that 9/11 was a triumph for the intelligence community,not a
failure.

CIA agent Baer,See no Evil,2002

From: "Geoffrey Sinclair"

Quite correct. On the other hand the replies almost fill in a lunch type
break and provide much laughter.

Geoffrey Sinclair
Remove the nb for email.

If you want a real laugh do a google on denyev on the subject of the two atomic
bombs the Germans detonated in WW2.
One of them was under a well populated area.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

If you want a real laugh do a google on denyev on the subject of the two
atomic
bombs the Germans detonated in WW2.
One of them was under a well populated area.

Well populated ?
Since when the sea and and the area where nobody other than SS and forced
laborers could enter is well populated?

Actually I enjoy it, and the demolition is instructive for considering
other conspiracy theorists. Provided you're happy to engage with a
troll, I don't think any harm is done. Except to the troll.

Gavin Bailey

Actually there was not much conspiracy initialy.It was someting that
almost everbody knew in 40s,even if they dont talk loudly about
that.(FDR) Administration apparently did not go an extra mile to cover
up.
It was something that should happen and supposed to happen,if not in
Pearl Harbor then somewhere else,if not on Dec.7 then later.
Administration only helped to turn this event into a catastrophic and
catalysing PSYOP event for political purposes and they did not regret
it.

Serious conspiracy started much later.

Ah yes the near total erase and change the subject approach, take 7.
Now we are into claims being simply recycled, so be aware around 95%
of my text is simply putting back in the text Denyav simply has to drop,
nothing new here really, apart from the modern quotes. I timed my effort
at 10 minutes plus the 5 minute review before sending. Apart from point
23 below, search for "Hey some original text." as the marker for the start
of non deleted text

The story so far,

1) the claims about the war warning message text, dropped after the
war warning text was actually posted. (the warnings are supposed to
make Pearl Harbor the only target)
2) the use of the character in the Pearl Harbor movie played by Dan
Aykroyd as a source of facts, dropped when it was revealed where
the name came from.
3) claims about the various investigations into the Pearl Harbor attack,
dropped when a list of such investigations was posted
4) attempts to promote the relatively recent congressional request to
promote General Short and Admiral Kimmel as proof of a conspiracy
are dropped, after the text of the resolution is posted.
5) claims about what Admiral Kimmel said are backed up by the URL
of the transcript of the congressional request meeting, Kimmel had
been dead for around 30 years before the meeting. The URL text
does not support pre knowledge of the attack and includes over
statements on Kimmels behalf (inventing 800 to 1,000 extra patrol
bombers available)
6) the claim the only investigation to clear Kimmel is the reliable one
despite the claim the findings and evidence have never been released.
Claim dropped again.
7) The claims the investigations were all rigged because it was one
entity investigating itself. Dropped since the claimed only investigation
to clear Kimmel was USN, the USN investigating the USN.
8) Hollywood is a US "premier quasi-governmental PSYOP organization."
Claim dropped.
9) The claim the US needed Pearl to be attacked, apparently the assaults
on Wake, Guam, Midway, the Philippines and US shipping were not enough.
Claim dropped.
10) The claim MacArthur received warnings Hawaii did not, claim dropped.
The same war warnings were sent to all commands in the Pacific.
11) the claim the "McCollum Memo" was a blueprint for US government
actions, dropped after the memo summary was posted, pointing out
what the memo actually said.
12) the claim McCollum was in charge of codebreaking dropped, his
memo header makes it clear he was in a different area.
13) If you write a book that says no conspiracy you are automatically
said to be pushing the official version, and such versions are claimed
to be wrong. No proof mind you. Claim dropped.
14) The conspiracy pushers cannot lie unless they receive official permission.
That was a good one.
15) There are still some USN intercept files still hidden, claim dropped.
16) The attempt to use Stinnett as a source appears to be dropped,
since the claims are so easy to prove wrong it seems. If you question
Stinnett directly he complains about spelling errors rather than reply.
17) The Lietwiler letter, claims dropped after the key text was posted.
18) Only in Washington are investigations rigged with hand picked
documents. Claim dropped.
19) JN-25 was an "easy" code, claim dropped.
20) Churchill quote meaning, claim dropped.
21) If you know one thing perfectly you must know another thing perfectly
(in an attempt to "prove" 1941 = 2001)
22) The war warnings become a blind rather than identifying Pearl as
the target.
23) Allen Dulles, CIA chief saying they knew in 1941, claim dropped.

Let the laughs begin. Or more particularly Denyav's tour of web
sites looking for irrelevant quotes.

Denyav wrote in message ...
the claims about the war warning message text, dropped after the
war warning text was actually posted. (the warnings are supposed to
make Pearl Harbor the only targe

Naval Court of Inqury exonarated Kimmel because they consider so called War
Message as an attempt to direct the attention away from Pearl Harbor rather
than warning.

6) the claim the only investigation to clear Kimmel is the reliable one
despite the claim the findings and evidence have never been released.
Claim dropped again.
7) The claims the investigations were all rigged because it was one
entity investigating itself. Dropped since the claimed only investigation
to clear Kimmel was USN, the USN investigating the USN.

I like this, the results are secret but Denyav knows all. Organisations
investigating themselves cannot be trusted, but the USN can be when
it investigates itself. Remember in conspiracy theory the story validates
the source, not the source validates the story.

1)Nov.25: Yamamato's Target Pearl Harbor message to the First Air Fleet
intercepted and read

The many times deleted text,

"You mean the one the IJN couriered to the fleet in Hittokapu bay?
You see IJN custom was to send such orders by courier. Things
like making sure the rest of the IJN was not eavesdropping on
such sensitive information. After all any ship or shore station in
the fleet that picked up the message could take a look at the
contents and Yamamoto wanted it to be a secret operation.

The Nurse character in the Pearl Harbor movie told you right?

It is quite simple, when Denyav actually tries to put a source for the
claims up it is shot down, so we are left with claims with no proof."

2)Nov.26: So called War Warning message designed to draw attention
away from Pearl Harbor issued


Deleted text,

"Yes folks, I suppose people are aware of what else happened on
26 November, the transmission of the US terms for negotiations
to the Japanese. In effect a restatement of the original US terms,
ones Japan had already said were unacceptable. The US was
also aware of the 29 November "Things are automatically going
to happen" deadline for negotiations to succeed in Japanese
terms.

Strange isn't it, the diplomats conclude negotiations are off, so
the time has come to send a war warning. Instead the great
conspiracy has to decide because they happened on the
same date they must be related.

Just forget the allies were not decoding JN-25 in November
1941, that the message in question was not radioed according
to the IJN, that intercepted messages from the Pacific came
to Washington via airmail and sea mail, but this message,
never radioed, never decoded, was decoded in real time and
sent to Washington in real time and in an instant the US
organised a cover up, for the people in the Pacific and Washington
and London and the Dutch."

By the way the IJN never used the words Pearl Harbor in a JN-25B
message, it had a geographic designator, remember AF = Midway
and the way the USN had to send the famous fresh water message
to remove doubts about what AF stood for? But do not worry about
this, just assume perfect US knowledge pre war and then they lose
it as soon as war is declared.

3)Nov.26: Merchant shipping routes in Pasific changed so that Japanase Task
Force could sail to Hawaii without being seen by allied Merchant ships.


deleted text,

yes folks, if FDR wore green socks on 26 November that is a signal.
Sneezing twice was the go code. Anything that happens on 26
November is to be considered proof of whatever is wanted proven.

By the way work out the sailing time from the US to the mid Pacific
and note if the US wanted to avoid interceptions the ban needed to
be in place before the IJN sailed. Also note the US did not control
all allied shipping, only US and there were Soviet freighters moving
between Siberia and the US west coast. So much for all shipping.

Above all ignore the fact that the direct route from the US to the
Philippines was dominated by Japanese airbases.

4)But caring US president did not forget to ask Red Cross to prepare secretly
for the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor eight days before Pearl Harbor attack.

Hey some original text.

Web site trawl, just ignore the Red Cross in Hawaii had been preparing
for war since March 1941, that 8 days before the attack was the expiry
of the date set by the Japanese for negotiations to succeed and that
Hawaii was the main US base in the Pacific, where you stockpile
supplies.

Conspiracy is wrong word to define Pearl Harbor incident.There is no
conspiracy at all.Everything is honestly and simply planned and many
times admitted.

Holy writ moment it seems. No proof.

"FDR stated that we were likely to be attacked perhaps as soon as next
Monday..The question was how we should maneuver into the position firing the
first shot without too much danger to ourselves.
In spite of risk involved,however,in letting the Japanase to fire the first
shot,we realized that in order to have full support of the American people,it
was desirable to make sure that the Japanase be the ones to do this so that
there should remain no doubt in anyone's mind as to who were the Aggressors"

Henry Stimson,Nov.25,1941

Gasp, Stimson is allowing the Japanese to attack the Philippines,
Guam, Wake and US shipping before allowing the US military to
shoot back. Shocking. No mention of Pearl Harbor of course, but
clearly the absence of an admission is an admission. Conspiracies
come in even numbers, the original and the cover up.

"As America becomes an increasingly multicultural society,it may find it more
difficult to fashion consensus on foreign policy issues,except in yhe
circumstances of a truly massive and widely perceived direct external threat"

Zbigniew Brzezinski, The Grand Chessboard,1997

hey how about that a pluralist society has more difficulty reaching
consensus.

"..the process of transformation..is likely to be long one,absent some
catastrophic and catalyzing event-like a new Pearl Harbor"

Rebuilding Americas Defenses,Sep.2000

How about that, peace time military build ups are slower, and you
also do not have the ability to test things in combat, slowing things
down more.

"The other day a reporter friend told me that one of the highest ranking CIA
officials had said to him,off the record,when the dust finally clears the
Americans will see that 9/11 was a triumph for the intelligence community,not a
failure.

CIA agent Baer,See no Evil,2002

This is funny, either the community fumbled the warnings, bad move,
or the community is supposed to have allowed things, very bad move.
Above all he said he said is taken as proof of conspiracy and not an
attempt to turn the situation to advantage. By the way the book makes
the claims the US intelligence system is badly flawed, which makes it
unable to find conspiracies, let alone run them. So an attempt to spin
the result is taken as proof of conspiracies using a book that makes
it clear such a conspiracy could not happen.

Just remember folks, the US is so good it cannot be defeated,
only betrayed from within, the US government sees all, knows all.
The US compensates for this wonder ability by making sure
elected leaders betray the country on a regular basis, think of it
as a universal US presidential hobby.

Denyav has real problems if the above is supposed to explain what
happened in 1941.

I will ignore putting the deleted text back in this time, the McCollum
memo, war warnings text and so on.

Geoffrey Sinclair
Remove the nb for email.

deleted text,

"As usual most of my words are deleted, new tactic time though, simply
lie about what has been written. Denyav has decided to go back to
a message I wrote on June 14, bypassing the JN-25 information I
posted more recently. I await with interest his retrieval of information
I sent in say 1990 as another desperate tactic to avoid actually answering.

Denyav wrote in message ...
Yes folks, if Denyav can forget about him deleting the text he can
simply pretend it did not happen. He started off passing Pearl
Harbor the movie as a source of facts and now finds the real
facts are coming out, so rewind to those simpler movie days."

Again to many words to hide the forest.

Translation no ability to reply to basic facts.

deleted text,

"I expect him to heroically delete my reply and the heroically repeat he
is repeating his same junk. Two heroic acts means another self
awarded medal."

Lets see now, I have mentioned for quite some time the failure to
change additive books in December 1941.

No,you did not ,because you knew what did it mean

Yes folks, Denyav's word is classified by him as Holy writ, no proof
is required. Much laughter generated. I am still waiting for proof
about what I am supposed to have dated the McCollum memo. I
like the way Denyav assumes because he needs to hide the truth
the same applies to others.

Sigh, I keep telling you the additive book was not changed for the first
two months as for why you would have to ask the IJN, presumably an
administrative foul up.

No you never mentioned this issue before I pressed.Another indicator that you
know exactly what to hide.

Yes folks, Denyav's word is classified by him as Holy writ, no proof
is required. Much laughter generated. In the mean time I am inflated
to big boogie man. I prefer get down and boogie man.

Now tell us all how this meant the allies gained the complete code
book in 2 months. Not just a list of valid code groups.

First of all the two month period refers to use of old book by Japanase after
introduction of JN25B.

The codes in question were the A5 and B5 versions. That is the code
book was changed from A to B but the additive (random number) book
was left at 5. In August 1945 the USN noted it had 4,907 out of 50,000
additives for the 5 book. Which explains quite well why the main effect
of the failure to change additive books did not compromise the code
values, but did compromise the fact the basic code system was still in use.

If it did compromise the code values then it should have compromised
the A version as well, yet the USN reports knowing around 5% of the
code values when work stopped around March 1941.

On plain English that means the Japanase continued to blunder away JN25 B
continuously for two months.

In plain English Denyav does not have a clue.

Of course US did not completed code recovering within two months,this work
continued.
In Nov.41 ,US was able to read 90% of JN25B coded messages.
(Ditto for Brits and Dutch)

Yes folks, Holy Writ time, no proof offered about what they could read.
By the way if it was 90% by December 1941 can you explain how this
percentage went down by April/May 1942, when the allies were trying
to figure out Midway and Coral Sea? Or that the all knowing intelligence
system missed the IJN battleships coming out at Midway and the way
the IJN carriers came into the Coral Sea? In the latter case it meant
the US carriers found themselves with the Japanese airbases in front
and the Japanese carriers behind, hence the way the tanker and
destroyer supposed to be safely in the rear were sunk first.

As of 20 April 1945 the USN found it had 35,761 additives of JN-25B7,
the version in use 1 August to 3 December 1941, with the probability
several hundred might be bad. So 70% of the additives were thought
to be known, this was upped to 47,500 by August 1945, as part of the
reworking of the messages. As of 1 December 1941 the USN thought
it knew 3,800 code group meanings.

Yes folks, the fact the IJN used the old additive book told the allies
the basic code system was still in place, 5 digit code groups with
valid numbers divisible by 3.

There was no need to worry about basic information like say the
new valid code groups were now divisible by say 2.

Just ignore the new code introduced auxiliary tables, two meanings
for the same code group, and stopped having the code groups in
alphabetical order. Just pretend the IJN radioed the code book
to the allies.

So now the lies begin. Firstly the failure to update the random number
book enabled the allies to confirm the basic system was still in place.
The valid code groups were 5 digit numbers divisible by 3. Secondly
the allies did not have all the valid random numbers, additives, used
to disguise the valid code groups, thirdly the Japanese did not put
out messages containing all 55,000 valid code group meanings in
the two months, December 1940 and January 1941.

Together with the British the US had 300 values assigned
to "B version" code groups by April 1941.

If you would like to know the exact code groups recovered it was
"Unfinished or Continuous" [i.e., a running tally]
April 1, 1941: "approximately 300 values recovered"
May 1, 1941: "approximately 400 values recovered"
June 1, 1941: "approximately 1100 values recovered"
July 1, 1941: "approximately 1100 values recovered"
August 1, 1941: "approximately 2000 values recovered"
Sept 1, 1941: "approximately 2000 values recovered"
Oct 1, 1941: "approximately 2400 values recovered"

"Completed during October 1941"
Nov 1, 1941: "600 values recovered" [i.e., a total of 3,000 values as of
this date]

"Completed during November 1941"
Dec 1, 1941: "800 values recovered" [i.e., a total of 3,800 values as of
this date]

"Unfinished or continuous"
Jan 1, 1942: "Approximately 6,180 values recovered"

Remembering some previously assigned values could be changed
by later discoveries.

So by the end of December 1941 the allied thought they had around 7%
of the code book recovered.

BTW you did not even need complete code book to read the most of
messages. I am pretty sure that you are also aware what Safford
asserted in 1941,but you did and wont mention in any of your
messages.Lets refresh your memory:

This is wonderful, I am supposed to know all about everything and
every document in existence on JN-25. This is not to flatter me of
course, but rather to manufacture another sinister hider of the
truth. Quick, award new medal for creating a new boogie man.

Yes folks, remember JN-25 was in effect a language, and that like
all languages most of the talk is in a small subset of the total words
available. Just do not mention the unusual words were the things
that were used for the messages the conspiracy wants to have
decoded in real time.

"A large JN25 code as many as 55000 values.But in actual practice,
such was the streoteyped nature of the text ,7000 recoveries permitted
almost complete decyrption,and many pattern messages could be
read practically entire with as few as 1500 meanings"
(History of OP-20-GYP1,NSA)


We have moved away from using Pearl Harbor the movie as a
source and now it seems we have moved onto carefully selected
excerpts from US government documents.

By the way the assertion above is Captain Safford wrote the words,
as opposed to the document being written in around 1944, not by
Safford. It also ignores the conclusion of the paper, JN-25 decryption
played no part in Pearl Harbor and all the reasons why. You see
the problem is the usual one, the really important messages were
the non standard ones.

By the way in case people are wondering Denyav is wandering the
conspiracy theory web sites, yet again Mark Willey's one or
conspiracy central, looking for that out of context quote to throw in.
Just type a key phrase into a search engine and see which site
Denyav is copying, watch the spelling errors though. Stand by for
the Martian involvement in the attack if the web site can be found.

Oh yes, "nothing to report" is a pattern message. Special orders
for unique operations are very non pattern using uncommon code
groups.

A fundamental problem is knowing the random numbers being used
to disguise a given message, it does not matter how common the
code groups are if the random numbers are not known.

deleted text, rather than telling us where the "world wide" journals
from 1931 with how to crack JN-25 can be found.

"Translation no proof brought forward, just a wishful thinking.

Oh yes, the fact there is said to be a theoretical way to crack a
system is supposed to equal the system was cracked, silly isn't it?"

The idea the Japanese might improve the system is dismissed.

They indeed improved it but they committed one of the most stupit
acts of WWII during the process of improvement and they blundered
away the improved system.

Ah yes the IJN improved the system but just keep up the claim
it was the same as US systems from years ago, which come
with "how to crack the code in 5 minutes" instructions.

imple really, fail to mention Churchill noted what the allies
had read they put into the public arena in 1946. Otherwise
the conspiracy requires Churchill to be alternatively the truth
bringer and telling lies.


deleted text,

"And remember the IJN had more than 1 code in service, as
did the IJA, but just pretend Churchill's first quote has an
extra line with JN-25B in it."

So Churchill lied on one page and told the truth on another page,
(Your truth of Course).

Yes folks, I just love the conspiracy claims, they require the truth
bringer to be liar and vice versa.

You mean Yamamoto's letters to his staff were sent in JN-25B?
The couriered messages were in JN-25B?

This is really funny.

Couriered messages?

By the way folks, the IJN should know what it sent by radio and
what it couriered, but do not worry, just assume the IJN is totally
composed of liars. Ignore the fact the text of the wonder key
message comes from post war interrogations.

Did you tell Yamamato that JN25 B broken?

Yes folks apparently everybody transmits everything by radio unless
they are told the code is broken. This joins the claim made one time
that the Japanese Post Office would not sent coded IJN messages.
It was an attempt to try and wish away the telegraph and courier
links to the fleet before it sailed. By the way the Japanese Post
Office was willing to send coded messages for non Japanese agencies.

They all were radioed messages.

Note the Holy Writ no proof statement.

By the way folks, the IJN should know what it sent by radio and
what it couriered, but do not worry, just assume the IJN is totally
composed of liars.

Just ignore navies knew it was a good idea to minimise radio
traffic, for that matter as did air forces and armies. No need
to be told the code might be broken. The German army I think
has the slogan all signals traffic is high treason.

None of the messages found in the "Pre-Pearl Harbor Japanese Naval
Dispatches" file mention Pearl Harbor by name. (This file is found in
National Archives at College Park, RG 38, Crane Files, CNSG 5830/115; most
of the messages have also have been reprinted in "Pearl Harbor Revisited:
United States Navy Communications Intelligence, 1924-1941," an unclassified
monograph published by the National Security Agency in 1994.)"

deleted text,

"The USN went back in 1945/46 and broke out as many of the pre war
messages as it could to see what they could have told. One of the
favourite tricks is to claim the 1946 dates are faked."

Quite correct,but you again forgat to mention WHY the NONE of mentioned
Pre-Pearl Harbor messages are available in College Park.

Lets refresh your memory again:
Does almost three dozen withdrawal notices issued by NSA after the release of
"Days of Deceipt" remind you something?

Ah yes, Stinnett was in such trouble, he needed to make all sorts
of claims about what could be found in the documents, I presume
since no proof has been provided of these withdrawal notices we
are being treated to another Holy Writ moment.

What I really love is the way the claim the documents are being
suppressed but Denyav knows what they are, apparently JN-25
intercepts. Who needs research when such psychic powers
exist. Hence the Holy Writ moments.

Persons who claim that they are not available in College Park,must also tell
why they are being withdrawn by NSA.

This is good the person who is claiming the documents are
not available must now tell us why. Denyav, please tell us
why and provide references for the notices.

Simple really, fail to mention Churchill noted what the allies
had read they put into the public arena in 1946. Otherwise
the conspiracy requires Churchill to be alternatively the truth
bringer and telling lies.

And remember the IJN had more than 1 code in service, as
did the IJA, but just pretend Churchill's first quote has an
extra line with JN-25B in it.

Hard to break JN25B code is an urban legend created in Washington
D.C.to cover treason.

Translation telling lies about JN-25 is an attempt to cover someone's
inability to cope with reality.

Yes change the subject time. Try and defend the first Churchill
quote and wish away the second.

Well, the current custodians of Pearl Harbor conspiracy seemingly are not as
honest as Churchill or Stimson,they at least honestly admitted it, or as caring
as FDR,he did not inform Honululu about attack and made it happen,but he
secretly contacted Red Cross before attack and told them to get prepared for
attack,I would call him a really caring President.

Yes folks, start off with the idea Churchill would apparently confess
to a conspiracy (no one noticed of course until the truth bringers
appeared to reinterpret the text). Then find anything the US did
to prepare for war as proof of a conspiracy.

Imagine that, expecting war, see Stimson, and then doing something
stupid like starting to put medical supplies in place. Of course the
stockpiles of medical supplies in US west coast ports are presumably
proof the Japanese intended to sail onto America after the attack, right?

By the way Hawaiian medical resources were being increased in 1940,
the Hawaiian Red Cross started war preparations in March 1941.

http://hml.org/mmhc/exhibits/ww2hml/

"Chartered as a member of the American Red Cross in 1917, the
Hawaii chapter began preparations for war in Hawaii in March 1941.
In April, the chapter cooperated with the Major Disaster Council of
Honolulu to coordinate the resources of the city with residents, firms,
agencies and organizations to meet any major disaster or
emergency. The plans of the Red Cross were laid primarily with a
view to air attack by Japan, which might be directed against the city
as well as military installations. The possibility of bombardment was
considered, as well as invasion, and its effect on the civilian population."

You see folks, conspiracy land would have the Red Cross must have
known, after all there they were preparing for air raids. Note that in
March 1941 the IJN attack was still in the is it possible discussion
phase between senior leaders.

Simple really, look for people preparing for war and announce they
must have known what was coming, the specific attacks, not the
war as a whole. Drag the Red Cross leadership into the conspiracy claims.

"FDR stated that we were likely to be attacked perhaps as soon as next
Monday..The question was how should we maneuver them into position of firing
the first shot without too much danger to ourselves.In spite of risk involved
,however,in letting Japanase to fire the first shot,we realized that in order
to have full support of the American people it was desirable to make sure that
the Japanase be the ones to do this so that there should remain no doubt in
anyone's mind as to who were the Aggressors"

Henry Stimson ,The Secretary of War,Nov.25,1941

Congratulations on a non relevant quote, by the way ever going to tell
us why the invasion of the Philippines, Wake and Guam and attacks
on US shipping were not enough for first shot honours? By the way the
above is apparently proof Stimson is admitting to allowing the Pearl
Harbor attack, as opposed to admitting he was not going to allow the
US to start shooting first.

Remember the isolationists, plus those that opposed FDR? The US
was a democracy, people actually differed from the government and
were allowed to. Such people were against the government starting
a war without congressional approval at least.

By the way "Next Monday" for someone writing on 25 November 1941
is 1 December 1941. Amazing how FDR knew the Japanese were
going to attack on 30 November 1941, the day after the 29 November
deadline the Japanese had set. Oh that's right, throw away all the
predictions that were incorrect and only ever mention the ones that
were correct, conspiracies need such help.

there is lots of deleted text but I will hold off this time. See previous
posts if interested.

Geoffrey Sinclair
Remove the nb for email.

The codes in question were the A5 and B5 versions. That is the code
book was changed from A to B but the additive (random number) book
was left at 5. In August 1945 the USN noted it had 4,907 out of 50,000
additives for the 5 book. Which explains quite well why the main effect

of the failure to change additive books did not compromise the code
values, but did compromise the fact the basic code system was still in use.

If it did compromise the code values then it should have compromised
the A version as well, yet the USN

eports knowing around 5% of the
code values when work stopped around March 1941.

On plain English that means the Japanase continued to blunder away JN25 B

continuously for two months.

In plain English Denyav does not have a clue.

In Plain English you will continue to deny what really happened in the days
prior to Pearl Harbor.
Heck even some main actors of Pearl Harbor,like Stimson and Churchill etc
admitted it.
You are really very good in hiding reality behind too many irrelevant words.

What did you say now?
US stopped recovering codes in March when only 5% codes were recovered.

First of all do you believe to what you say?
Everbody knew that US and Japan were moving toward a confrontation in Pasific
and and US had a golden opportunity to recover all japanese naval codes,and
suddenly US stopped work on code recovering in March only after a couple of
months work!!!!.

Code recovering did not stop in March,it did not stop on Dec.7 either.

According to your data US recovered roughly 5000 codes by March which seems to
be correct.

But even with 5000 recoveries you can read the most of the messages.
"A large code as many as 55000 values ,but in actual practice ,such was
streotyped nature of the text,7000 recoveries permitted almost complete
decyription,and many pattern messages could be read practicaly entire with as
few as 1500 meanings"(History of OP-20-GYP-1,NSA)
ou see folks, conspiracy land would have the Red Cross must have
known, after all there they were preparing for air raids. Note that in
March 1941 the IJN attack was still in the is it possible discussion
phase between senior leaders.

For a different view please check out:
http://www.usni.org/Naval History/Articles/NHborgquist6.htm


Yes change the subject time. Try and defend the first Churchill
quote and wish away the second.

Is quoting from one page and wishing away others a priviledge given only to
Gov't employees?
I did not know that.

the specific attacks, not the
war as a whole. Drag the Red Cross leadership into the conspiracy claims.


You are very smart really,Red Cross of early 40s had more in common with FEMA
of 2001 ,than the Red Cross of 2001.

By the way in case people are wondering Denyav is wandering the
conspiracy theory web sites, yet again Mark Willey's one or
conspiracy central, looking for that out of context quote to throw in.
Just type a key phrase into a search engine and see which site
Denyav is copying, watch the

Thats seems to be big problem for the custodians of Pearl Harbor conspiracy.
The public interest in books and websites telling them what their Great Leaders
did not and do not tell is skyrocketing specially after 9/11.
I think now its pretty safe assume that so called conspiracy theories are now
becoming mainstream theories accepted by the most of the people.

Congratulations on a non relevant quote, by the way ever going to tell
us why the invasion of the Philippines, Wake and Guam and

What Stimson said is irrelevant,
What Churchill said is irrelevent.
What Congressman Dies said is irrelevant.
What Joseph Grew said is irrelevant.
What Haan said is irrelevant.
What US Army Gen.Rhorpe said is irrelevant.
What Popov said is irrelevant.
What Journalist Leib said is irrelevant.
What Capt.Rannefft of Dutch Navy said is irrelevant.
Countless others are irrelevant.

So whats relevant?
Of course the words of Pearl Harbor conspiracy custodians!!.

No wonder books,movies and websites telling what the custodians try to hide are
experiencing a boom.
Simply put,people do not want to hear lies only any longer.
Too bad for the custodians.

or a different view please check out:
http://www.usni.org/Naval History/Articles/NHborgquist6.htm


Http://www.usni.org/NavalHistory/Art...borgquist6.htm

Sorry for typo

Now we are into claims being simply recycled, so be aware around 95%
of my text is simply putting back in the text Denyav simply has to drop,
nothing new here really, apart from the modern quotes. I timed my effort
at 10 minutes plus the 5 minute

You are very versed in using many detractors in your posts,but you seem to
forget the main rule:

Bad Policy cannot be corrected by excellent Strategy,bad Strategy cannot be
saved by excellent tactics.

If we put your detractors aside and summarize your most current position,we
find out :

1)According to you every statement no matter if they originated from
Stimson,Dulles,Churchill,Casey,Popov,Weiijeman,Gen .Thorpe,Hoover,Capt.Holc
wick,Dies Lieb etc is IRRELEVANT for the Pearl Harbor incident if they point to
a direction other than official direction.

2)You have finally admitted,after resisting long time to do so,that the
Japanase blundered away JN25B code.
You have also finally admitted that US took advantage of Japanase blunder and
recovered almost 5000 JN25B codes before March 1941.
But according to you US,that was able to recover 5000 codes in only a few
months,suddenly stopped recovering codes in March 1941 !!!!!.

I guess in March 1941, USN came under command of Yamamato and he stopped all
code recovering work as that could be dangerous for IJN in nearing conflict.


Thats your current position absent your detractors.
Truly amazing position indeed.
Cheers.