Should you tell Tower you're departing IFR

or should they just know it already?

I was departing Sugarland (KSGR) yesterday, after having gotten my
clearance from ground control. Tower assigned me runway heading (this
was about 45 minutes later as there was MUCH traffic waiting in line
for takeoffs) and handed me off to departure. I had trouble getting a
word in edgewise, but when I eventually did, departure said "change
squawk to 0044". Later a different controller (but same freq I
believe) asked my if I was VFR???? I told him "Negative, N7NZ is
cleared Industry departure then as filed, currently on 270 vector". He
said, "roger, cleared direct IDU", and the rest of the flight was
uneventful (and unambiguously IFR). This was all in VMC.

Later I thought that maybe the tower didn't realize I was IFR when he
cleared me for takeoff, and that fouled something up with departure.

Or, is there another reason I would have immediately been given a new
squawk code like that? I seem to remember that 0xxx squawks are
"local" or something like that. Yet I believe I then kept that same
0044 the entire remaining duration of the flight (through Houston
Center and then Austin Approach to my destination 44TE).

Thanks!
John Clonts
Temple, Texas
N7NZ

"John Clonts" wrote in message
ups.com...
or should they just know it already?

I was departing Sugarland (KSGR) yesterday, after having gotten my
clearance from ground control. Tower assigned me runway heading (this
was about 45 minutes later as there was MUCH traffic waiting in line
for takeoffs) and handed me off to departure. I had trouble getting a
word in edgewise, but when I eventually did, departure said "change
squawk to 0044". Later a different controller (but same freq I
believe) asked my if I was VFR???? I told him "Negative, N7NZ is
cleared Industry departure then as filed, currently on 270 vector". He
said, "roger, cleared direct IDU", and the rest of the flight was
uneventful (and unambiguously IFR). This was all in VMC.

Later I thought that maybe the tower didn't realize I was IFR when he
cleared me for takeoff, and that fouled something up with departure.



I tell tower I am waiting for IFR release. But considering the traffic in
your area, they probably forgot.

Last week, they got my destination wrong and that messed up a few things
during handoffs between controllers, but eventually it sorted itself out.

I fly out of a pretty busy towered airport. I've been taught to always
inform tower that I'm IFR. I believe that is because the tower has to
coordinate with the local center/approach before an IFR flight launches
as each controller can only handle a specified number of planes
simultaneously. That's probably why you are sometimes requested to
"standby for release."

I recommend that practice. Can't hurt.

Bob Gardner

"John Clonts" wrote in message
ups.com...
or should they just know it already?

I was departing Sugarland (KSGR) yesterday, after having gotten my
clearance from ground control. Tower assigned me runway heading (this
was about 45 minutes later as there was MUCH traffic waiting in line
for takeoffs) and handed me off to departure. I had trouble getting a
word in edgewise, but when I eventually did, departure said "change
squawk to 0044". Later a different controller (but same freq I
believe) asked my if I was VFR???? I told him "Negative, N7NZ is
cleared Industry departure then as filed, currently on 270 vector". He
said, "roger, cleared direct IDU", and the rest of the flight was
uneventful (and unambiguously IFR). This was all in VMC.

Later I thought that maybe the tower didn't realize I was IFR when he
cleared me for takeoff, and that fouled something up with departure.

Or, is there another reason I would have immediately been given a new
squawk code like that? I seem to remember that 0xxx squawks are
"local" or something like that. Yet I believe I then kept that same
0044 the entire remaining duration of the flight (through Houston
Center and then Austin Approach to my destination 44TE).

Thanks!
John Clonts
Temple, Texas
N7NZ

On 9/23/2005 09:01, John Clonts wrote:

or should they just know it already?

I was departing Sugarland (KSGR) yesterday, after having gotten my
clearance from ground control. Tower assigned me runway heading (this
was about 45 minutes later as there was MUCH traffic waiting in line
for takeoffs) and handed me off to departure. I had trouble getting a
word in edgewise, but when I eventually did, departure said "change
squawk to 0044". Later a different controller (but same freq I
believe) asked my if I was VFR???? I told him "Negative, N7NZ is
cleared Industry departure then as filed, currently on 270 vector". He
said, "roger, cleared direct IDU", and the rest of the flight was
uneventful (and unambiguously IFR). This was all in VMC.

Later I thought that maybe the tower didn't realize I was IFR when he
cleared me for takeoff, and that fouled something up with departure.

Or, is there another reason I would have immediately been given a new
squawk code like that? I seem to remember that 0xxx squawks are
"local" or something like that. Yet I believe I then kept that same
0044 the entire remaining duration of the flight (through Houston
Center and then Austin Approach to my destination 44TE).

Well, you get your clearance from Ground/Clearance Delivery, but then
there may be any number of delays between that time, and when you're
ready to take off.

You need to let the tower know when you're ready (by telling them that
you're holding for IFR release). The tower then begins negotiating for
a slot in the 'system' for your flight. Once they have a slot ready,
they clear you to take off.

I was told this 'holding for release' should never take more than a
few minutes, but then I fly out of a not-so-busy tower-controlled
airport (Sacramento Executive, KSAC).

I was taught never to assume that I would be able to just tell the
tower that I was ready to go. This step of finding a slot in the
system for me can't begin until I let the tower know that I'm ready.

So far, in the dozens of training flights - I've never been given a
take-off clearance right away - although most delays are brief.



Thanks!
John Clonts
Temple, Texas
N7NZ



--
Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Airplane
Sacramento, CA

"Mark Hansen" wrote in message
...

Well, you get your clearance from Ground/Clearance Delivery, but then
there may be any number of delays between that time, and when you're
ready to take off.

You need to let the tower know when you're ready (by telling them that
you're holding for IFR release). The tower then begins negotiating for
a slot in the 'system' for your flight. Once they have a slot ready,
they clear you to take off.


Why is it necessary to tell the tower you're holding for an IFR release?
Whether or not an IFR release is necessary is an internal ATC matter. If
the tower must call for IFR release it should do so right after taxi
clearance is issued to an aircraft that previously was issued an IFR
clearance.



I was told this 'holding for release' should never take more than a
few minutes, but then I fly out of a not-so-busy tower-controlled
airport (Sacramento Executive, KSAC).

I was taught never to assume that I would be able to just tell the
tower that I was ready to go.


Were you taught why you should never assume that?



This step of finding a slot in the
system for me can't begin until I let the tower know that I'm ready.


That's ridiculous.

On 9/23/2005 11:43, Steven P. McNicoll wrote:

"Mark Hansen" wrote in message
...

Well, you get your clearance from Ground/Clearance Delivery, but then
there may be any number of delays between that time, and when you're
ready to take off.

You need to let the tower know when you're ready (by telling them that
you're holding for IFR release). The tower then begins negotiating for
a slot in the 'system' for your flight. Once they have a slot ready,
they clear you to take off.


Why is it necessary to tell the tower you're holding for an IFR release?
Whether or not an IFR release is necessary is an internal ATC matter. If
the tower must call for IFR release it should do so right after taxi
clearance is issued to an aircraft that previously was issued an IFR
clearance.

How long will it take the aircraft to go from requesting the clearance
(or taxi) and being ready to take off? The tower needs to negotiate a
slot in the system for your flight. To do that, it needs to know when
you're going to be ready to go.

Of course, this may be one of those 'local policy' issues?





I was told this 'holding for release' should never take more than a
few minutes, but then I fly out of a not-so-busy tower-controlled
airport (Sacramento Executive, KSAC).

I was taught never to assume that I would be able to just tell the
tower that I was ready to go.


Were you taught why you should never assume that?

Yes, as explained above.




This step of finding a slot in the
system for me can't begin until I let the tower know that I'm ready.


That's ridiculous.


--
Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Airplane
Sacramento, CA

"Mark Hansen" wrote in message
...

How long will it take the aircraft to go from requesting the clearance
(or taxi) and being ready to take off?


Depends how far it has to taxi. The controller will know from experience
and provide an appropriate estimate to the facility providing departure
control functions.



The tower needs to negotiate a
slot in the system for your flight. To do that, it needs to know when
you're going to be ready to go.


The tower knows where you are and where you have to taxi to and how long it
takes to get there.



Yes, as explained above.


Well, you were taught wrong.

On 9/23/2005 12:05, Steven P. McNicoll wrote:

"Mark Hansen" wrote in message
...

How long will it take the aircraft to go from requesting the clearance
(or taxi) and being ready to take off?


Depends how far it has to taxi. The controller will know from experience
and provide an appropriate estimate to the facility providing departure
control functions.

Included in this time as well are the run-up checks and the
navigation setup, chart organization, etc.

I don't see how the tower could guess when the plane will be ready
to depart.




The tower needs to negotiate a
slot in the system for your flight. To do that, it needs to know when
you're going to be ready to go.


The tower knows where you are and where you have to taxi to and how long it
takes to get there.



Yes, as explained above.


Well, you were taught wrong.

ok, thanks.


--
Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Airplane
Sacramento, CA

At the aiport I fly out of (KPAO) after I readback my clearance to
ground they always tell me to "advise the tower you're IFR". So there's
no question about this issue there. I'm not sure if this has to do with
how busy our airport always is, or how busy the departure airspace is.
I'd guess both. I'll make a not to ask the controller next time I visit
the tower.

Max