Regarding the Sand Foxbats

I read this at newsmax.com

"The Russian-made MiG-25 Foxbat being recovered by U.S. Air Force troops
in the photos is an advanced reconnaissance version never before seen in
the West and is equipped with sophisticated electronic warfare devices."
"The recovery of the advanced MiG fighter is considered to be an
intelligence coup by the U.S. Air Force. The Foxbat may also be equipped
with advanced Russian- and French-made electronics that were sold to
Iraq during the 1990s in violation of a U.N. ban on arms sales to Baghdad."

Which version is this since is has not been discovered by the west in 10
odd years, and in more detail what would the "sophisticated" electronics
be ? Is it of any value to anybody today ? One would wonder how
sophisticated anything on a 20-30 year old Foxbat would be. (i mean, the
most sophisticated should kinda be on the MiG-31 Foxhound, shouldnt it?)

Hope anybody can clarify a bit :-) And remember, im no military expert,
so if anybody can keep it in near-laymans terms i would appreciate it,
thanks :-)

The link to the article:
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/arti...6/105528.shtml

-------------
enlight

enlight wrote:

Which version is this since is has not been discovered by the west in 10
odd years, and in more detail what would the "sophisticated" electronics
be ? Is it of any value to anybody today ? One would wonder how
sophisticated anything on a 20-30 year old Foxbat would be.

Just because the airframe itself is 20-30 years old doesn't mean the internal
hardware has to be. I'm sure both the Russians and the Americans have done the
same deal: since we're upgrading our forces, we can pull these older warplanes
off the first line and have them rehabbed for export. Sweeten the deal by using
the same radar sets and instrumentation as the newer planes, but it's still
cheaper for the buyer than having to buy factory new. When America sold
Phantoms to Greece and Egypt and Turkey and other nations in the late 70s/early
80s, the production line for them had already been switched over to Eagles. But
all those Phantoms were overhauled and upgraded for the sale, so in some ways
they were better machines than they were when the USAF was using them.

So the Iraqi Foxbats might have internal electronics the same as maybe the
Fulcrum or Flanker, with improved radar and fire control. During the embargo,
since the Iraqis couldn't necessarily buy new planes themselves, they could at
least get the electronics upgraded...perhaps smuggling them over the border in
shipments of civilian goods?

The Iranians have done all sorts of upgrades to their American-built warplanes
over the decades since the Revolution there. Who's to say the Iraqis couldn't
do the same with their Russian and French-made planes?

Stephen "FPilot" Bierce/IPMS #35922
{Sig Quotes Removed on Request}

The Foxbat 'appears' to be a specialized reconnaissance version MiG-25RB
(possibly modified to include RBT sensor suite; which would be, by itself,
of interest). As such, its unique value would be in its signals
intelligence equipment. This is not your vanilla Victor Belinko Foxbat (an
interceptor)!!!! Your correct in that a Foxhound would be of great
interest, but that is an advanced interceptor as well. This is kind of like
getting your hands on a fighter version of the Navy's EP-3E (a stretch I
know, but just trying to get my point across).

Unlikely it is supplied with the 'best' from FSU as it is an 'export', but
of value none-the-less.

To say it this is a completely unknown type is not totally correct (i.e. it
is not newly discovered as you say), but it is a first (that is known in
open-source) in terms of a hands-on-exploitation for its intelligence value
(a relative term).

Mark


"enlight" wrote in message
k...
I read this at newsmax.com

"The Russian-made MiG-25 Foxbat being recovered by U.S. Air Force troops
in the photos is an advanced reconnaissance version never before seen in
the West and is equipped with sophisticated electronic warfare devices."
"The recovery of the advanced MiG fighter is considered to be an
intelligence coup by the U.S. Air Force. The Foxbat may also be equipped
with advanced Russian- and French-made electronics that were sold to
Iraq during the 1990s in violation of a U.N. ban on arms sales to
Baghdad."

Which version is this since is has not been discovered by the west in 10
odd years, and in more detail what would the "sophisticated" electronics
be ? Is it of any value to anybody today ? One would wonder how
sophisticated anything on a 20-30 year old Foxbat would be. (i mean, the
most sophisticated should kinda be on the MiG-31 Foxhound, shouldnt it?)

Hope anybody can clarify a bit :-) And remember, im no military expert,
so if anybody can keep it in near-laymans terms i would appreciate it,
thanks :-)

The link to the article:
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/arti...6/105528.shtml

-------------
enlight

I read this at newsmax.com

"The Russian-made MiG-25 Foxbat being recovered by U.S. Air Force troops
in the photos is an advanced reconnaissance

pruned for brevity

In the pix I've seen, it appears as if the aircraft was just buried under
the sand -
no attempt to prevent ingress of sand into the aircraft and its systems. If
this is
the case, there was obviously no intention to use the aircraft in the
foreseeable
future. Was the burial done:

a. To remove a potential target, thereby safeguarding the area
b. By people who were just told 'to conceal the aircraft', people with no
expertise
in aircraft maintenance
c. Any other ideas?

John Mackesy

Pictures on net show a fair amount of plastic sheeting was applied, but that
seems to be about it for 'protecting' the aircraft. Not the best of methods
to ensure a quick (relative term) return to flying shape. Would guess
maintenance types did the work since someone with more than just a shovel
was responsible for removing the wings!!!!! Probably did the best the could
given the circumstances (and lack of any previous experience or tech orders
on burying aircraft properly).

Suspect someone wanted to protect these aircraft from attack with the
optimistic hope that over a period of months following a cessation of
hostilities (in a situation similar to 1992), they could pull them back out.

Just a guess....

Mark

"John Mackesy" wrote in message
...
I read this at newsmax.com

"The Russian-made MiG-25 Foxbat being recovered by U.S. Air Force troops
in the photos is an advanced reconnaissance

pruned for brevity

In the pix I've seen, it appears as if the aircraft was just buried under
the sand -
no attempt to prevent ingress of sand into the aircraft and its systems.
If
this is
the case, there was obviously no intention to use the aircraft in the
foreseeable
future. Was the burial done:

a. To remove a potential target, thereby safeguarding the area
b. By people who were just told 'to conceal the aircraft', people with no
expertise
in aircraft maintenance
c. Any other ideas?

John Mackesy

"enlight" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
k...
I read this at newsmax.com

"The Russian-made MiG-25 Foxbat being recovered by U.S. Air Force troops
in the photos is an advanced reconnaissance version never before seen in
the West and is equipped with sophisticated electronic warfare devices."
"The recovery of the advanced MiG fighter is considered to be an
intelligence coup by the U.S. Air Force. The Foxbat may also be equipped
with advanced Russian- and French-made electronics that were sold to
Iraq during the 1990s in violation of a U.N. ban on arms sales to
Baghdad."

Which version is this since is has not been discovered by the west in 10
odd years, and in more detail what would the "sophisticated" electronics
be ? Is it of any value to anybody today ? One would wonder how
sophisticated anything on a 20-30 year old Foxbat would be. (i mean, the
most sophisticated should kinda be on the MiG-31 Foxhound, shouldnt it?)

Hope anybody can clarify a bit :-) And remember, im no military expert,
so if anybody can keep it in near-laymans terms i would appreciate it,
thanks :-)

The link to the article:
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/arti...6/105528.shtml

-------------
enlight

The Iraqis have got four main versions of the MiG-25:

- MiG-25PD(export) - interceptors still equipped with the Smerch radar,
albeit with R-60/AA-8-compatibility
- MiG-25PD/PDS - improved interceptors with the Sapheer-25 radar that had a
limited "depressed" LD capability
- MiG-25RBs - strike/recce version
- MiG-25RBTs - improved strike/recce version, albeit with additional
capability to use Kh-25 missiles.

Of course, they have got also the two-seat MiG-25PU trainers.

In addition, the Soviets have three times sent MiG-25BMs for testing against
Iran to Iraq: two times the test ended abruptly with one of the Foxbats
being shot down by IRIAF F-14s.

The whole set of photos of the unearthing of that poor MiG-25RB, as well as
general information about the MiG-25 in service with the (ex)IrAF can be
found he http://www.acig.org/artman/publish/article_138.shtml

The example dug out on 6 July and seen on these photographs was an MiG-25RB
upgraded to the RBT variant, IrAF serial "25108", with additional
RWR-blisters on the sides of the intakes. At the time this version was
upgraded (1986/87) it presented the top Soviet high-tech on the fields of
reconnaissance, RWR and ECM-equipment for Foxbats.

Its worth as today is (at best) of "warbird" quality - if it will ever be
made flyable again, which I strongly doubt.

Tom Cooper
Co-Author:
Iran-Iraq; War in the Air, 1980-1988
http://www.acig.org/pg1/content.php
Iranian F-4 Phantom II Units in Combat
http://www.osprey-publishing.co.uk/t...hp/title=S6585

In addition, the Soviets have three times sent MiG-25BMs for testing against
Iran to Iraq: two times the test ended abruptly with one of the Foxbats
being shot down by IRIAF F-14s.

"Flight testing has been delayed, however, evaluation of the ejection systems
is ahead of schedule."

G

"John Mackesy" wrote:

Was the burial done:

a. To remove a potential target, thereby safeguarding the area
b. By people who were just told 'to conceal the aircraft', people with no
expertise
in aircraft maintenance
c. Any other ideas?

To place the a/c in their natural element, ready at a moment's
notice. All you need is to add smoke, you already have them in a hole.

;-D



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Hey, Tom, did you ever find out anything about the mass jet/helicopter
fracas..? Curious to hear what open sources have to say about it, if anything.

v/r
Gordon
====(A+C====
USN SAR Aircrew

"Got anything on your radar, SENSO?"
"Nothing but my forehead, sir."

If you mean such things happening during the IPGW (Iraq-Iran War), then yes.

The usual air battles were involving between ine and four Iranians and
between 12 and 50 Iraqis: the "record" was a battle between seven Iranians
and 75 Iraqis, fought in June 1988.

In the sence of a "fracas" you ask about, involving also helicopters, I
guess the air battle over the northern TO, on 21 November 1982 would be a
good example: two F-14As vs four MiG-21s and four MiG-23s escorting a
section of four Mi-8s and Mi-25s carrying two generals into front
inspection. Two MiG-23s and a single MiG-21 were splashed (two by AIM-54s,
one by AIM-7s) in exchange for no loss to Iranians. You can find the details
in the article "Fire in the Hills", published in the volume 104 of the
AirEnthusiast magazine.


Tom Cooper
Co-Author:
Iran-Iraq; War in the Air, 1980-1988
http://www.acig.org/pg1/content.php
Iranian F-4 Phantom II Units in Combat
http://www.osprey-publishing.co.uk/t...hp/title=S6585