Chuck Yeager and the IAF

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Although Yeager is without question one of the finest sticks the United
States military has ever turned out, and he is entitled to many accolades
involving his fine career, the following statement accompanying the
photograph of Gen Yeager from this article is incorrect.

"The first man to break the sound barrier - Brigadier General Charles E
"Chuck" Yeager, USAF."

In fact, Chuck Yeager was the first man to beak the speed of sound in LEVEL
FLIGHT.
His flight in the X1 at Edwards followed by a week the flight of the first
man to actually break the sound barrier. That man was George Welch. The
aircraft was the North American F86 prototype.
Dudley Henriques

Dudley Henriques wrote:
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Although Yeager is without question one of the finest sticks the
United States military has ever turned out, and he is entitled to
many accolades involving his fine career, the following statement
accompanying the photograph of Gen Yeager from this article is
incorrect.
"The first man to break the sound barrier - Brigadier General Charles
E "Chuck" Yeager, USAF."

In fact, Chuck Yeager was the first man to beak the speed of sound in
LEVEL FLIGHT.
His flight in the X1 at Edwards followed by a week the flight of the
first man to actually break the sound barrier. That man was George
Welch. The aircraft was the North American F86 prototype.
Dudley Henriques

And there are stories of pilots during WWII doing it in powered dives. But
the X1 was the first to do it with only the power it's engines were
producing.

"Dudley Henriques" wrote in message
...

Although Yeager is without question one of the finest sticks the United
States military has ever turned out, and he is entitled to many accolades
involving his fine career, the following statement accompanying the
photograph of Gen Yeager from this article is incorrect.

"The first man to break the sound barrier - Brigadier General Charles E
"Chuck" Yeager, USAF."

In fact, Chuck Yeager was the first man to beak the speed of sound in
LEVEL FLIGHT.
His flight in the X1 at Edwards followed by a week the flight of the first
man to actually break the sound barrier. That man was George Welch. The
aircraft was the North American F86 prototype.
Dudley Henriques

Fact? A fact is something known to be true; a verifiable truth known by
actual experience or observation. It is a fact that Yeager exceeded Mach 1
in the X-1, Welch PROBABLY did it earlier in the XF-86, but there is no
verifiable evidence that he did.

"Gig 601XL Builder" wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net wrote in message
...

And there are stories of pilots during WWII doing it in powered dives.

But those are just stories.

"Gig 601XL Builder" wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net wrote in message
...
Dudley Henriques wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...
Funny story:
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/IAF/Hi...unPrakash.html


Although Yeager is without question one of the finest sticks the
United States military has ever turned out, and he is entitled to
many accolades involving his fine career, the following statement
accompanying the photograph of Gen Yeager from this article is
incorrect.
"The first man to break the sound barrier - Brigadier General Charles
E "Chuck" Yeager, USAF."

In fact, Chuck Yeager was the first man to beak the speed of sound in
LEVEL FLIGHT.
His flight in the X1 at Edwards followed by a week the flight of the
first man to actually break the sound barrier. That man was George
Welch. The aircraft was the North American F86 prototype.
Dudley Henriques

And there are stories of pilots during WWII doing it in powered dives. But
the X1 was the first to do it with only the power it's engines were
producing.

Actually, no prop fighter can exceed mach 1, as a shock wave builds on the
propeller disc and the prop itself will prevent supersonic airflow. The tips
however can easily go supersonic and can easily cause catastrophic failure
at the prop hub.
I had a friend who experimented deeply into the transonic range with prop
fighters while a test pilot for Curtis Wright. Using a P47 Thunderbolt and
many different propeller combinations, Herb Fisher never actually got the
Jug through the barrier.
Another friend, Erik Shilling of the Flying Tigers, lost a good friend when
the friend was playing around with a P40 in China. In a deep dive over the
field, the prop was heard to go supersonic just before it tore the P40 apart
in the air.
Tony Levier from Lockheed did many deep dives in the P38 dealing with mach
tuck and never put the Lightning through the barrier. The Brits at Boscombe
Down after the war worked with Spitfires in high mach dives with no success
there either.
On the German side, one ME-262 driver was absolutely certain he had gone
mach 1 in a dive, but later tests proved he was dealing with the lag in his
pitot static system as that affected his airspeed readout. The 262 due to
design couldn't break mach 1 anyway which later tests at Wright Pat proved
out without question.
I personally have a P51 out to about .70 mach in a dive and I can tell you
it was one scary experience :-))
George Welch did it the week before Yeager while on a test flight in the
Sabre prototype.
Through the years of my own career, I either knew or met at least a half
dozed people who were at Pancho's bar eating lunch the day Welch went
through. The boom knocked all the pictures off the walls at Pancho's. The
story goes she wasn't all that happy about it either as she liked Yeager and
knew of the rivalry to be the first. But that's another story :-))
Dudley Henriques

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message
link.net...

"Dudley Henriques" wrote in message
...

Although Yeager is without question one of the finest sticks the United
States military has ever turned out, and he is entitled to many accolades
involving his fine career, the following statement accompanying the
photograph of Gen Yeager from this article is incorrect.

"The first man to break the sound barrier - Brigadier General Charles E
"Chuck" Yeager, USAF."

In fact, Chuck Yeager was the first man to beak the speed of sound in
LEVEL FLIGHT.
His flight in the X1 at Edwards followed by a week the flight of the
first man to actually break the sound barrier. That man was George Welch.
The aircraft was the North American F86 prototype.
Dudley Henriques

Fact? A fact is something known to be true; a verifiable truth known by
actual experience or observation. It is a fact that Yeager exceeded Mach
1 in the X-1, Welch PROBABLY did it earlier in the XF-86, but there is no
verifiable evidence that he did.

Welch's flight the day he went mach 1 was not scheduled as a try for the
barrier. He did it on his own, knowing full well that Yeager was scheduled
the following week to make the attempt in the X1.
There were about 30 people at Pancho's that heard the boom; almost all of
them employees of various aircraft manufactures and military personel
assigned at Edwards for flight test. These people were all quite
knowledgable on the subject of Yeager, Welch, Bell, and the prototype Sabre.
At least 2 of these people knew about Welch making the attempt that day even
though unscheduled.
If you mean by not having proof that Welch's flight didn't make the news and
that it was hushed up by the Air Force, you are absolutely correct. If you
mean that the people I know personally who were there when it happened
were"mistaken", I'm afraid I would tend to allow you your belief and simply
let it go at that :-)
All this having been said, I believe anyone seriously researching deeply
into this event will come up with enough "proof" to choke a horse.
This one is right up there with needing the "proof" that it was Rex Barber
who got Yamamoto and not Lamphier. Given enough time, the Welch flight will
take it's proper place in history.
Dudley Henriques

"Dudley Henriques" wrote in message
...

Welch's flight the day he went mach 1 was not scheduled as a try for the
barrier. He did it on his own, knowing full well that Yeager was scheduled
the following week to make the attempt in the X1.
There were about 30 people at Pancho's that heard the boom; almost all of
them employees of various aircraft manufactures and military personel
assigned at Edwards for flight test. These people were all quite
knowledgable on the subject of Yeager, Welch, Bell, and the prototype
Sabre. At least 2 of these people knew about Welch making the attempt that
day even though unscheduled.
If you mean by not having proof that Welch's flight didn't make the news
and that it was hushed up by the Air Force, you are absolutely correct. If
you mean that the people I know personally who were there when it happened
were"mistaken", I'm afraid I would tend to allow you your belief and
simply let it go at that :-)
All this having been said, I believe anyone seriously researching deeply
into this event will come up with enough "proof" to choke a horse.
This one is right up there with needing the "proof" that it was Rex Barber
who got Yamamoto and not Lamphier. Given enough time, the Welch flight
will take it's proper place in history.


I'm familiar with Welch's flight that day. That's why I can confidently say
that Welch probably exceeded Mach 1 before Yeager did, but that's all that
can be said about it.

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message
hlink.net...

"Dudley Henriques" wrote in message
...

Welch's flight the day he went mach 1 was not scheduled as a try for the
barrier. He did it on his own, knowing full well that Yeager was
scheduled the following week to make the attempt in the X1.
There were about 30 people at Pancho's that heard the boom; almost all of
them employees of various aircraft manufactures and military personel
assigned at Edwards for flight test. These people were all quite
knowledgable on the subject of Yeager, Welch, Bell, and the prototype
Sabre. At least 2 of these people knew about Welch making the attempt
that day even though unscheduled.
If you mean by not having proof that Welch's flight didn't make the news
and that it was hushed up by the Air Force, you are absolutely correct.
If you mean that the people I know personally who were there when it
happened were"mistaken", I'm afraid I would tend to allow you your belief
and simply let it go at that :-)
All this having been said, I believe anyone seriously researching deeply
into this event will come up with enough "proof" to choke a horse.
This one is right up there with needing the "proof" that it was Rex
Barber who got Yamamoto and not Lamphier. Given enough time, the Welch
flight will take it's proper place in history.


I'm familiar with Welch's flight that day. That's why I can confidently
say that Welch probably exceeded Mach 1 before Yeager did, but that's all
that can be said about it.


This issue is now and has been for many years, an open ended issue. I can
assure you that there are many out here deeply involved in seeing to it that
this is indeed NOT "all that can be said about it "

Just as Rex Barber finally received the credit he was due for the Yamamoto
mission, so perhaps will George Welch eventually receive his due place in
aviation history.
I can also tell you that in the flight test community as we speak, Yeager's
flight in the X1 never comes up that Welch isn't immediately mentioned and
the scenario corrected to what actually occurred at Edwards before the
drinks go down.
So I would agree with you that in some circles it might be true about all
having been said on the issue. Fortunately in the venues directly related
to the issue, this is far from being a fact of life :-)
Dudley Henriques

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
"Dudley Henriques" wrote in message
...
Welch's flight the day he went mach 1 was not scheduled as a try for the
barrier. He did it on his own, knowing full well that Yeager was scheduled
the following week to make the attempt in the X1.
There were about 30 people at Pancho's that heard the boom; almost all of
them employees of various aircraft manufactures and military personel
assigned at Edwards for flight test. These people were all quite
knowledgable on the subject of Yeager, Welch, Bell, and the prototype
Sabre. At least 2 of these people knew about Welch making the attempt that
day even though unscheduled.
If you mean by not having proof that Welch's flight didn't make the news
and that it was hushed up by the Air Force, you are absolutely correct. If
you mean that the people I know personally who were there when it happened
were"mistaken", I'm afraid I would tend to allow you your belief and
simply let it go at that :-)
All this having been said, I believe anyone seriously researching deeply
into this event will come up with enough "proof" to choke a horse.
This one is right up there with needing the "proof" that it was Rex Barber
who got Yamamoto and not Lamphier. Given enough time, the Welch flight
will take it's proper place in history.


I'm familiar with Welch's flight that day. That's why I can confidently say
that Welch probably exceeded Mach 1 before Yeager did, but that's all that
can be said about it.

Were you there? What additional proof exists for Yeager's flight?

Matt