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#31
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On Tue, 23 Sep 2003 18:33:37 -0700, "Tarver Engineering"
wrote: Snipped botched lobotomy induced drivel.... I thought California was restricting internet access at State institutions. Guess they haven't gotten to Tarver's ward yet.... I recently read a newspaper story about a Jackass that wandered away from a petting zoo and was struck by some dork doing 120 mph in a WRX. Figured he was still in the hospital.... I wonder if Tarver even knows what a WRX is? I'm pretty sure he can't spell it. Finally, is this a relative of your's Tarver? From Annanova.com: "A student cut off his own penis and his tongue after drinking an infusion of the latest drugs craze to sweep Germany. The 18-year-old, only named as Andreas W, from Halle in Germany drank a tea made with the hallucinogenic angels' trumpet plants. His mother said: "Andreas was behaving normally the whole day until he left the house and disappeared into the garden for a couple of minutes." When he returned to the house he was wearing a towel wrapped around him and was bleeding heavily from his mouth and between his legs. The emergency doctor who arrived a few minutes later said the student had cut off his penis and his tongue with garden shears and it was impossible to reattach the organs." I ask because you have a lot in common, including not being able to talk about getting laid.... 5 little known facts about Tarver: 5) His favorite pickup line is; "hey babe, your place or my moms?" 4) His greatest moment of clarity arrived and all he could say was, "Someone pull this wolverine off my nutsack!" 3) Chuck Yeager stopped by to see his simulator, but figured he didn't want to sit in another AN-AL-2003 certified Cambodian fart basket. 2) Tarver is really a cranky South L.A. Korean grocer. 1) The inside of his hat smells like someone cured a Christmas ham in it. Widewing (C.C. Jordan) http://www.worldwar2aviation.com http://www.netaces.org http://www.hitechcreations.com |
#32
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"Corey C. Jordan" wrote:
On 23 Sep 2003 07:47:41 -0700, (Walt BJ) wrote: Exceeding M1.0 in either the Sabre or the Dog was no big deal. You just pointed them straight down from 40+ and didn't fight it if it wanted to roll around .95(flap rigging, usually). Question: didn't Edwards get boomed when Welch went supersonic? Walt BJ It certainly did! Prior to heading back to North American to debrief with the engineers, Welch telephoned a friend that he had briefed the day before about what to be listening for. Excitedly, his friend related that they had been nearly blown out of bed by a terribly loud ba-boom. The time was noted and it corresponded to George's dive. Major General Joseph Swing heard the boom and reported it to Stu Symington. Hundreds of others heard it too. Many wives ran outside looking for the tell-tale plume of smoke indicating a crash, but there wasn't any smoke to see. Ask any of the NAA guys (or the Bell crew as well) who were there at the time. Welch's boom was quite loud, far more so than Yeagers would be (which makes sense when you consider that Welch was diving towards the base, whereas Yeager was in level flight at higher altitude). Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the XP-86 still have the 4,000 lb. thrust J35C-3 at that time? Quite a ways down on thrust from the 5,200 lb. J47-13 of the F-86A, and the top speed of the XP-86 in the only reference I have handy is given as 618 mph @ 14,000 ft. and 575 mph @ 35,000 ft. (M0.875), versus the 677 (presumably lower down) of the F-86A. The XP-86 is credited in the same source with first exceeding Mach 1 on 26 April 1948, but it's implied (not explicitly stated) that it did so on a 3,920 lb. thrust J35-A-5, and that the J47 was first installed in the F-86A. This seems more than a bit odd, to install an untried engine in the production a/c without flying it in the prototype first. I've read pilot's accounts that say that some F-86As would 'hang up' and not quite make it through the mach if you didn't do the roll in right, which suggests that the XP-86 with its lower thrust might well have trouble. Of course, if exceeding mach was mainly a question of drag rather than excess thrust, then it shouldn't have been a major problem. I've just always wondered. Guy |
#34
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o on
a 3,920 lb. thrust J35-A-5, and that the J47 was first installed in the F-86A. This seems more than a bit odd, to install an untried engine in the production a/c The three XF-86As (sic) were all brought up to 'F-86A-1' standard by the time they were delivered to the Air Force; that included fitting the J47. Duncan |
#35
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"Gordon" wrote in message
... There's a small problem with this myth. At speeds beyond Mach 0.88, the Me 262 begins shedding major components, wings and such. But Corey, you lied about Copp, so why would anyone at ram ever believe you again? How about me? I don't know Copp from Copralite, but I _know_ that the Me 262 was a subsonic airframe with subsonic engines. Copralite -- petrified dinosaur poop? -- Andrew Chaplin SIT MIHI GLADIUS SICUT SANCTO MARTINO (If you're going to e-mail me, you'll have to get "yourfinger." out.) |
#36
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Copralite -- petrified dinosaur poop? 'zactly |
#37
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In article ,
Guy Alcala writes: "Corey C. Jordan" wrote: On 23 Sep 2003 07:47:41 -0700, (Walt BJ) wrote: Exceeding M1.0 in either the Sabre or the Dog was no big deal. You just pointed them straight down from 40+ and didn't fight it if it wanted to roll around .95(flap rigging, usually). Question: didn't Edwards get boomed when Welch went supersonic? Walt BJ It certainly did! Prior to heading back to North American to debrief with the engineers, Welch telephoned a friend that he had briefed the day before about what to be listening for. Excitedly, his friend related that they had been nearly blown out of bed by a terribly loud ba-boom. The time was noted and it corresponded to George's dive. Major General Joseph Swing heard the boom and reported it to Stu Symington. Hundreds of others heard it too. Many wives ran outside looking for the tell-tale plume of smoke indicating a crash, but there wasn't any smoke to see. Ask any of the NAA guys (or the Bell crew as well) who were there at the time. Welch's boom was quite loud, far more so than Yeagers would be (which makes sense when you consider that Welch was diving towards the base, whereas Yeager was in level flight at higher altitude). Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the XP-86 still have the 4,000 lb. thrust J35C-3 at that time? Quite a ways down on thrust from the 5,200 lb. J47-13 of the F-86A, and the top speed of the XP-86 in the only reference I have handy is given as 618 mph @ 14,000 ft. and 575 mph @ 35,000 ft. (M0.875), versus the 677 (presumably lower down) of the F-86A. The XP-86 is credited in the same source with first exceeding Mach 1 on 26 April 1948, but it's implied (not explicitly stated) that it did so on a 3,920 lb. thrust J35-A-5, and that the J47 was first installed in the F-86A. This seems more than a bit odd, to install an untried engine in the production a/c without flying it in the prototype first. The rather low thrust of the XP-86s is quite true, but in the case of diving one through the Mach, it's pretty much irrelevant. The big factor in barging into the region o rising drag isn't the 1,000-1,200# of pusth that you're getting from the J35 at 40,000', bit the 13,000# of gravity assist that you get in the dive. Of course, with such a low thrust/weight, it took forever to get up there. Roland Beamont made a "flying trip" to the U.S. in '47-'48 to assess the various projects that were going on, and to get some first-hand experience with American aircraft developments. (He flew the P-80A, the P-84A, a B-45 prototype, and an XP-86) He did, in fact, make a transonic dive in a J35 power XP-86. He did a series of article about this trip, includig the flight test reports, in "Aeroplane" back in 'bout 1988 or 1989. They were also chapters in "Testing the Early Jets". I've read pilot's accounts that say that some F-86As would 'hang up' and not quite make it through the mach if you didn't do the roll in right, which suggests that the XP-86 with its lower thrust might well have trouble. Of course, if exceeding mach was mainly a question of drag rather than excess thrust, then it shouldn't have been a major problem. I've just always wondered. It's not so much a matter of thrust, as making sure you've got enough dive angle on before you start getting into the thicker air below, say, 20,000'. If you didn't get it pointed pretty much straight down, you'd be running into thick air pretty fast. -- Pete Stickney A strong conviction that something must be done is the parent of many bad measures. -- Daniel Webster |
#38
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Peter Stickney wrote:
In article , Guy Alcala writes: "Corey C. Jordan" wrote: On 23 Sep 2003 07:47:41 -0700, (Walt BJ) wrote: Exceeding M1.0 in either the Sabre or the Dog was no big deal. You just pointed them straight down from 40+ and didn't fight it if it wanted to roll around .95(flap rigging, usually). Question: didn't Edwards get boomed when Welch went supersonic? Walt BJ It certainly did! Prior to heading back to North American to debrief with the engineers, Welch telephoned a friend that he had briefed the day before about what to be listening for. Excitedly, his friend related that they had been nearly blown out of bed by a terribly loud ba-boom. The time was noted and it corresponded to George's dive. Major General Joseph Swing heard the boom and reported it to Stu Symington. Hundreds of others heard it too. Many wives ran outside looking for the tell-tale plume of smoke indicating a crash, but there wasn't any smoke to see. Ask any of the NAA guys (or the Bell crew as well) who were there at the time. Welch's boom was quite loud, far more so than Yeagers would be (which makes sense when you consider that Welch was diving towards the base, whereas Yeager was in level flight at higher altitude). Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the XP-86 still have the 4,000 lb. thrust J35C-3 at that time? Quite a ways down on thrust from the 5,200 lb. J47-13 of the F-86A, and the top speed of the XP-86 in the only reference I have handy is given as 618 mph @ 14,000 ft. and 575 mph @ 35,000 ft. (M0.875), versus the 677 (presumably lower down) of the F-86A. The XP-86 is credited in the same source with first exceeding Mach 1 on 26 April 1948, but it's implied (not explicitly stated) that it did so on a 3,920 lb. thrust J35-A-5, and that the J47 was first installed in the F-86A. This seems more than a bit odd, to install an untried engine in the production a/c without flying it in the prototype first. The rather low thrust of the XP-86s is quite true, but in the case of diving one through the Mach, it's pretty much irrelevant. The big factor in barging into the region o rising drag isn't the 1,000-1,200# of pusth that you're getting from the J35 at 40,000', bit the 13,000# of gravity assist that you get in the dive. Of course, with such a low thrust/weight, it took forever to get up there. Roland Beamont made a "flying trip" to the U.S. in '47-'48 to assess the various projects that were going on, and to get some first-hand experience with American aircraft developments. (He flew the P-80A, the P-84A, a B-45 prototype, and an XP-86) He did, in fact, make a transonic dive in a J35 power XP-86. He did a series of article about this trip, includig the flight test reports, in "Aeroplane" back in 'bout 1988 or 1989. They were also chapters in "Testing the Early Jets". snip I've read the latter, and also some article he (I think) wrote elsewhere in which he said that it was somewhat in doubt whether he had indeed broken the Mach, owing to instrument error. Guy |
#39
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"Gordon" wrote in message ... Copralite -- petrified dinosaur poop? 'zactly As opposed to the parrot being a dinosaur poop salesman. Shafer and Bon-Myer were lucky to be let walk away, as opposed to some Federal charges. In addition to that RIF, Dryden is looking at a cut from $120 million this year to $80 million in FY04. The money that I made fall from the sky for 15 years is gone, along with any credibility the facility still had. Thanks Dudley. |
#40
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Shafer and Bon-Myer were lucky to be let walk away, as opposed to some Federal charges. snip John, I don't know what you have against Mary, but from my personal experience, she was just a gem to my son and I. He has some priceless memories due directly to her and during our visits, it was clearly obvious that she was looked upon as a highly respected fixture in the Dryden landscape. Gordon |
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