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#51
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Pakistan's Musharraf to resign as president
In message , William Black
writes "La N" wrote in message news:n7Vpk.7874$%b7.4500@edtnps82... Are you suggesting that Americans bomb weddings because they don't like weddings? What are they getting out of bombing weddings besides bad p.r.? I'm saying they bomb weddings because they refuse to take note of the culture of the people on their side that they're killing. The locals fire small-arms into the air at some celebrations. This is hardly a shocking surprise. Deal with it. This ought to be a compulsory part of RSOI, along with a proper threat brief about what does and does not kill aircraft in theatre. (Spray-and-pray small arms fire hasn't clocked up many kills anywhere, even for fast jets flying low enough for it to reach) The USAF has earned itself a reputation, though. I recall one 2005 incident where a company of infantry - over a hundred troops, a dozen big armoured vehicles and more soft-skinned transport, lots of kit and signature - came under fire from an AC-130 which claimed that (a) the range should have been cleared for it so the infantry shouldn't have been there and (b) after meticulous examination it didn't see _anyone_ on the ground so thought it could fire freely. (a) is a procedural or administrative problem. (b) says that the vaunted sensors either weren't all that or actually weren't checked. (Strangely, the recordings from the AC-130 were irretrievably mislaid before the inquiry) -- The nation that makes a great distinction between its scholars and its warriors, will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting done by fools. -Thucydides pauldotjdotadam[at]googlemail{dot}.com |
#52
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Pakistan's Musharraf to resign as president
William Black wrote:
"La N" wrote in message news:n7Vpk.7874$%b7.4500@edtnps82... "William Black" wrote in message ... "La N" wrote in message news:HCNpk.8112$nu6.3256@edtnps83... "tankfixer" wrote in message Our friend has been claiming it is policy. A most absurd statement IMHO. It is indeed an absurd statement. So why are they still bombing weddings? Are you suggesting that Americans bomb weddings because they don't like weddings? What are they getting out of bombing weddings besides bad p.r.? I'm saying they bomb weddings because they refuse to take note of the culture of the people on their side that they're killing. How many weddings has the U.S. actually struck? Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired |
#53
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Pakistan's Musharraf to resign as president
"Paul J. Adam" wrote in message
... In message , William Black writes "La N" wrote in message news:n7Vpk.7874$%b7.4500@edtnps82... Are you suggesting that Americans bomb weddings because they don't like weddings? What are they getting out of bombing weddings besides bad p.r.? I'm saying they bomb weddings because they refuse to take note of the culture of the people on their side that they're killing. The locals fire small-arms into the air at some celebrations. This is hardly a shocking surprise. Deal with it. This ought to be a compulsory part of RSOI, along with a proper threat brief about what does and does not kill aircraft in theatre. (Spray-and-pray small arms fire hasn't clocked up many kills anywhere, even for fast jets flying low enough for it to reach) The USAF has earned itself a reputation, though. I recall one 2005 incident where a company of infantry - over a hundred troops, a dozen big armoured vehicles and more soft-skinned transport, lots of kit and signature - came under fire from an AC-130 which claimed that (a) the range should have been cleared for it so the infantry shouldn't have been there and (b) after meticulous examination it didn't see _anyone_ on the ground so thought it could fire freely. (a) is a procedural or administrative problem. (b) says that the vaunted sensors either weren't all that or actually weren't checked. (Strangely, the recordings from the AC-130 were irretrievably mislaid before the inquiry) The whole Tarnak Farm affair back in '02 is similar. The Pats filed the appropriate plan announcing that they were training, and the f***ers drafting the ASOI never passed it on. **** me! Staff wienies killed soldiers through negligence. -- Andrew Chaplin SIT MIHI GLADIUS SICUT SANCTO MARTINO (If you're going to e-mail me, you'll have to get "yourfinger." out.) |
#55
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Pakistan's Musharraf to resign as president
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#56
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Pakistan's Musharraf to resign as president
On Aug 17, 9:22*pm, Dan wrote:
William Black wrote: "La N" wrote in message news:n7Vpk.7874$%b7.4500@edtnps82... "William Black" wrote in message ... "La N" wrote in message news:HCNpk.8112$nu6.3256@edtnps83... "tankfixer" wrote in message Our friend has been claiming it is policy. A most absurd statement IMHO. It is indeed an absurd statement. So why are they still bombing weddings? Are you suggesting that Americans bomb weddings because they don't like weddings? *What are they getting out of bombing weddings besides bad p.r.? I'm saying they bomb weddings because they refuse to take note of the culture of the people on their side that they're killing. * * How many weddings has the U.S. actually struck? Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired Good question, at least a few dozen. Thing is, WE know its not intentional, THEY don't. All they know is they had a wedding and the Americans bombed it. Then claimed it was terrorists or whatever. There might have even been a terrorist there. But, most was collateral damage. And the consequence is, we lost the hearts and minds. Did that in another war as I recall. We can do better than that. I think the whole truth on the mess has not come out, and I think that once the truth does come out, and its going to be way after we're gone, its not going to be pretty. Some of the Marine Air Wings have dumped tons of ordinance on some cities. There was one report that was sort of hushed up of a million pounds of ordinance by one Wing. Think of where you live. Think of AC-130s hitting it. Or a bunch of 500 lb bombs going in. That's a lot of damage in an urban area. I've seen stuff go in real time. I can't see any reason to dump it on an urban area. Period. We did it in WWII, we hit military targets. It wasn't until later that we started pretty much carpet bombing of large areas. I've seen some of the after action bomb plots on the amount of damage done in Japanese cities, percentages destroyed. Yeah, war is hell. Yeah, we were breaking the back of an evil empire. But that is a lot different than Iraq where we're supposed to be bringing in Democracy. Christ, we're as bad as the RAF using chemical weapons on the Iraqi tribes. And they did tons of that in the 20s. Still lost. Look, we had the Turks shut down water to Iraq (and there's a whole wealth of information that is just coming out in the states - google Aaronson (sp?) who mapped water resources in the Middle East and how it would reduce conflict IF the borders were defined correctly - they weren't). That in part led to a ton of deaths the US refuses to acknowledge. Lots of other countries and NGOs do. The Iraqis were the most educated group in the Middle East. They know whats going on over there, we don't. And its the media, Bush, DoD that are to blame. Bluntly, not only are we going broke propping up a lie promulgated by Bush, we're also committing war crimes. Don't believe me? Read the laws of ground conflict, read the laws of war. You can find copies cheap in most bookstores. Part of being a military professional is having a sense of ethics. We seem to have lost that somehow. |
#57
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Pakistan's Musharraf to resign as president
"tankfixer" wrote in message ... In article , says... "tankfixer" wrote in message ... In article , says... "tankfixer" wrote in message ... In article , says... "tankfixer" wrote in message . .. In article , says... "Zombywoof" wrote in message ... Perhaps one day they will simply Nuke each other & be done with it. Except the Pakistanis can't hit anything south of Delhi. Which means that they can't hit the huge Indian bases in Maharashtra and Goa, which means they're stuffed, and, chances are, India gets reunified... They can't hit those bases with normal means of delivery. They can't hit them with nukes. IIRC Goa is a major seaport. Should be easy to get one there. Goa is an Indian state with a population in millions. Yes. But in this context we are talking Indian military bases are we not ? There in a major Indian navy fleet base in Goa, but somehow I doubt the ability of the Pakistani armed forces to smuggle an atomic bomb into it. In any case it's not the only major base the Indian navy has on that coast, there's the huge one in Bombay. Merchant ships travel many places... Into large naval bases? Surely the port is more than a naval base. Seperate installations. The Indian naval base in Goa is a new build. Having been a major port into India for thousands of years. Well no. It was build by the Portuguese about 500 years ago. Bombay, where the other big base is, was, famously, built in a malarial swamp by the British. The naval base there, built by the British, is a fair way from the docks. Anyone blowing up a population centre of about 25 million people with an atomic bomb had better be sure nobody's going to come around later with a war crimes tribunal... -- William Black I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach Time for tea. |
#58
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Pakistan's Musharraf to resign as president
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#59
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Pakistan's Musharraf to resign as president
On Aug 17, 11:55 pm, tankfixer wrote:
In article , says... "La N" wrote in message news:n7Vpk.7874$%b7.4500@edtnps82... "William Black" wrote in message ... "La N" wrote in message news:HCNpk.8112$nu6.3256@edtnps83... "tankfixer" wrote in message Our friend has been claiming it is policy. A most absurd statement IMHO. It is indeed an absurd statement. So why are they still bombing weddings? Are you suggesting that Americans bomb weddings because they don't like weddings? What are they getting out of bombing weddings besides bad p.r.? I'm saying they bomb weddings because they refuse to take note of the culture of the people on their side that they're killing. I'd say your wrong. There are any number of training publications stressing the need to understand the culture in both Iraq and Afghanistan. See: ENGAGING AFGHANISTAN?THE MULLAH CONNECTION by: CHAPLAIN (COLONEL) KENNETH L. SAMPSON U.S. Army War College CARLISLE BARRACKS TRADOC DCSINT HANDBOOK NO. 2 That's two of the 101 documents CALL listed under Cultual awareness. -- Meddle ye not in the Affairs of Dragons, for Thou art Crunchy and taste Goode with Ketchup. Have you ever been to one of those sessions? Third hand word says they are time killers with no emphasis on paying attention or attendance. Just mark in the book how many were there. "Cultual awareness" indeed |
#60
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Pakistan's Musharraf to resign as president
On Aug 17, 11:42 pm, tankfixer wrote:
In article , says... Sure, most nuclear states use ships as a delivery method. Cite? Name one. |
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