|
| If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. |
|
|||||||
|
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
|
|
|
#2
July 7th 03, 03:22 AM
|
|||
|
|||
(Kevin Brooks) wrote in message . com...
(JGB) wrote in message . com... http://www.sci.fi/~fta/python4.html Wrong again. First you claim that Python is an AMRAAM (it isn't), then you say it has been placed into service by the USAF (it hasn't), and now you claim that the RAAF has opted for it (and it hasn't). Why are you so hung up on Python, and why can't you get *any* of the facts on it right? BTW, one country that *has* purchased Python from Israel is...the PRC. Brooks Wrong as usual. China don't have the python 4 he talked about. And as usual you also know you're wrong (its called lying). Chile and India use it. 
|
|
#3
July 7th 03, 05:29 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Hmmm... the ASRAAM is it really a 'Short' range missile or an
AMRAAM????. It sort of gets a bit blurry with ASRAAM. Cheers John Cook Any spelling mistakes/grammatic errors are there purely to annoy. All opinions are mine, not TAFE's however much they beg me for them. Email Address :- Eurofighter Website :- http://www.eurofighter-typhoon.co.uk
|
|
#4
July 7th 03, 02:12 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
John Cook wrote in message . ..
Hmmm... the ASRAAM is it really a 'Short' range missile or an AMRAAM????. It sort of gets a bit blurry with ASRAAM. I see your meaning, but in all fairness, there is really only one missile family known as "AMRAAM", and that is the AIM-120 series. I think the better (generic) term for the other missiles you are referring to would be "BVRAAM". Brooks Cheers John Cook
|
|
#5
July 7th 03, 02:09 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
(Quant) wrote in message . com...
(Kevin Brooks) wrote in message . com... (JGB) wrote in message . com... http://www.sci.fi/~fta/python4.html Wrong again. First you claim that Python is an AMRAAM (it isn't), then you say it has been placed into service by the USAF (it hasn't), and now you claim that the RAAF has opted for it (and it hasn't). Why are you so hung up on Python, and why can't you get *any* of the facts on it right? BTW, one country that *has* purchased Python from Israel is...the PRC. Brooks Wrong as usual. Nope, the PLAAF has had the Python 3 in service for years, and... "China and Israel continue to cooperate on the J-10 fighter program, and Israel is reported to be competing with Russia to provide China with a new, helmet-sighted, air-to-air missile. Israel may also be offering China its PYTHON-4 missile, which uses the same Elba helmet display as the American AIM-9X missile slated to enter U.S. inventories in the next decade." (Source: http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/china/...hinasess4.html ) And at least one site indicates the J-10 already has the Pythin 4 capability, see: home.iae.nl/users/wbergmns/info/j10.htm And then there is: "Israel also is reported to be trying to sell China its new Python 4 air-to-air missile, the best air-to-air missile now in use.13 This missile uses an Elbit helmet sighting system." Source: http://www.heritage.org/Research/Asi...fic/BG1146.cfm The last one tracks with the numerous previous reports that Israel is indeed trying to sell not onlt the HMSS but also and advanced radar to the PLAAF for the J-10. Meanwhile Janes was reporting the following: "Israel blocks manufacture of Python 4 in USA" (12/06/00, Janes Defence Weekly). So, while quite willing to allow the PRC to manufacture Pythin, Israel is not so willing to allow its "close ally" the US that ability. Stranger and stranger... China don't have the python 4 he talked about. Maybe, maybe not. Others have not ruled that out as forcibly as you seem to. And as usual you also know you're wrong (its called lying). From a gabnder at the above, it would appear that you have once again jumped the gun... Chile and India use it. Gee, are you "lying" here? What about Singapore....? Brooks
|
|
#6
July 7th 03, 06:52 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
(Kevin Brooks) wrote in message om...
(Quant) wrote in message . com... (Kevin Brooks) wrote in message . com... (JGB) wrote in message . com... http://www.sci.fi/~fta/python4.html Wrong again. First you claim that Python is an AMRAAM (it isn't), then you say it has been placed into service by the USAF (it hasn't), and now you claim that the RAAF has opted for it (and it hasn't). Why are you so hung up on Python, and why can't you get *any* of the facts on it right? BTW, one country that *has* purchased Python from Israel is...the PRC. Brooks Wrong as usual. Nope, the PLAAF has had the Python 3 in service for years, and... "China and Israel continue to cooperate on the J-10 fighter program, and Israel is reported to be competing with Russia to provide China with a new, helmet-sighted, air-to-air missile. Israel may also be offering China its PYTHON-4 missile, which uses the same Elba helmet display as the American AIM-9X missile slated to enter U.S. inventories in the next decade." (Source: http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/china/...hinasess4.html ) In other words, your more-than-a-hint that China has python 4 is wrong. And at least one site indicates the J-10 already has the Pythin 4 capability, see: home.iae.nl/users/wbergmns/info/j10.htm This is not what the article says (and this is probably why you didn't brought quotes from it). And then there is: "Israel also is reported to be trying to sell China its new Python 4 air-to-air missile, the best air-to-air missile now in use.13 This missile uses an Elbit helmet sighting system." Source: http://www.heritage.org/Research/Asi...fic/BG1146.cfm No evidence, just an opinion article with from the Heritage with a header: "How America's Friends Are Building China's Military Power" The last one tracks with the numerous previous reports that Israel is indeed trying to sell not onlt the HMSS but also and advanced radar to the PLAAF for the J-10. Meanwhile Janes was reporting the following: "Israel blocks manufacture of Python 4 in USA" (12/06/00, Janes Defence Weekly). So, while quite willing to allow the PRC to manufacture Pythin, Not True Israel is not so willing to allow its "close ally" the US that ability. Stranger and stranger... China don't have the python 4 he talked about. Maybe, maybe not. Others have not ruled that out as forcibly as you seem to. And as usual you also know you're wrong (its called lying). From a gabnder at the above, it would appear that you have once again jumped the gun... Chile and India use it. Gee, are you "lying" here? What about Singapore....? After a quick google search Chile: "Chile will be the first F-16 customer for which Lockheed Martin has integrated the Rafael Python 4 off-boresight missile" (AviationNow) http://www.awgnet.com/shownews/02fidae/airfrm07.htm India: Python 4, Derby For Indian Jaguars & Mirages http://www.defense-update.com/news/india-missiles.htm Singapo Don't know about Singapore but I've found: "Singapore aircraft are allegedly also fitted with Python 4 air-air-missiles by Rafael". http://www.flug-revue.rotor.com/FRhe...05/FR0005d.htm But China don't have it. Brooks
|
|
#7
July 7th 03, 10:19 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
(Quant) wrote in message . com...
(Kevin Brooks) wrote in message om... (Quant) wrote in message . com... (Kevin Brooks) wrote in message . com... (JGB) wrote in message . com... http://www.sci.fi/~fta/python4.html Wrong again. First you claim that Python is an AMRAAM (it isn't), then you say it has been placed into service by the USAF (it hasn't), and now you claim that the RAAF has opted for it (and it hasn't). Why are you so hung up on Python, and why can't you get *any* of the facts on it right? BTW, one country that *has* purchased Python from Israel is...the PRC. Brooks Wrong as usual. Nope, the PLAAF has had the Python 3 in service for years, and... "China and Israel continue to cooperate on the J-10 fighter program, and Israel is reported to be competing with Russia to provide China with a new, helmet-sighted, air-to-air missile. Israel may also be offering China its PYTHON-4 missile, which uses the same Elba helmet display as the American AIM-9X missile slated to enter U.S. inventories in the next decade." (Source: http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/china/...hinasess4.html ) In other words, your more-than-a-hint that China has python 4 is wrong. You DO need to repeat that reading comprehension course; I said that Israel had sold the Python to the PLAAF, not any specific version. That is undeniably true, as the PRC even has their own version of Python 3 in production. As to whether that includes the Python 4 or not at this point, the jury seems to still be out (and Israel does not seem to be very forthcoming with exactly *what* they have provided to the PRC, or what they are trying to currently market to them). Wonder why? And at least one site indicates the J-10 already has the Pythin 4 capability, see: home.iae.nl/users/wbergmns/info/j10.htm This is not what the article says (and this is probably why you didn't brought quotes from it). Read the specs, friend. Python 4 is indeed listed as an available weapon for the J-10 in the aforementioned. Still having problems with that reading, huh? And then there is: "Israel also is reported to be trying to sell China its new Python 4 air-to-air missile, the best air-to-air missile now in use.13 This missile uses an Elbit helmet sighting system." Source: http://www.heritage.org/Research/Asi...fic/BG1146.cfm No evidence, just an opinion article with from the Heritage with a header: "How America's Friends Are Building China's Military Power" Which is one heck of a lot more than you have offered other than your own less-than-lofty pronouncements. can you find any sites that say that Israel has not either offered or already sold Python 4 to the PRC? The last one tracks with the numerous previous reports that Israel is indeed trying to sell not onlt the HMSS but also and advanced radar to the PLAAF for the J-10. Meanwhile Janes was reporting the following: "Israel blocks manufacture of Python 4 in USA" (12/06/00, Janes Defence Weekly). So, while quite willing to allow the PRC to manufacture Pythin, Not True LOL! Ever heard of the PL-8? It is a licensed copy of the Python 3. See: http://www.sinodefence.com/airforce/weapon/pl8.asp Israel is not so willing to allow its "close ally" the US that ability. Stranger and stranger... China don't have the python 4 he talked about. Well, it seems we KNOW they have the Python 3, and as I have shown you, there is significant buzz about them either already having, or having been offered at least, the Python 4. Please show us something other than your fervid rants that claims otherwise. Maybe, maybe not. Others have not ruled that out as forcibly as you seem to. And as usual you also know you're wrong (its called lying). From a gabnder at the above, it would appear that you have once again jumped the gun... Chile and India use it. Gee, are you "lying" here? What about Singapore....? After a quick google search Chile: "Chile will be the first F-16 customer for which Lockheed Martin has integrated the Rafael Python 4 off-boresight missile" (AviationNow) http://www.awgnet.com/shownews/02fidae/airfrm07.htm India: Python 4, Derby For Indian Jaguars & Mirages http://www.defense-update.com/news/india-missiles.htm Singapo Don't know about Singapore but I've found: "Singapore aircraft are allegedly also fitted with Python 4 air-air-missiles by Rafael". http://www.flug-revue.rotor.com/FRhe...05/FR0005d.htm But China don't have it. So, you were "lying" before, when you said that only Chile and India had it, huh? Therein lies the problem of trying to (even in the face of third party references otherwise) call somebody a "liar"; it can boomerang back and bite you squarely in the pesterior. You might therefore find sitting a bit uncomfortable for a while... Brooks Brooks
|
|
#8
July 8th 03, 12:37 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
(Kevin Brooks) wrote in message om...
(Quant) wrote in message . com... (Kevin Brooks) wrote in message . com... (JGB) wrote in message . com... http://www.sci.fi/~fta/python4.html Wrong again. First you claim that Python is an AMRAAM (it isn't), then you say it has been placed into service by the USAF (it hasn't), and now you claim that the RAAF has opted for it (and it hasn't). Why are you so hung up on Python, and why can't you get *any* of the facts on it right? BTW, one country that *has* purchased Python from Israel is...the PRC. Brooks Wrong as usual. Nope, the PLAAF has had the Python 3 in service for years, and... "China and Israel continue to cooperate on the J-10 fighter program, and Israel is reported to be competing with Russia to provide China with a new, helmet-sighted, air-to-air missile. Israel may also be offering China its PYTHON-4 missile, which uses the same Elba helmet display as the American AIM-9X missile slated to enter U.S. inventories in the next decade." (Source: http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/china/...hinasess4.html ) And at least one site indicates the J-10 already has the Pythin 4 capability, see: home.iae.nl/users/wbergmns/info/j10.htm And then there is: "Israel also is reported to be trying to sell China its new Python 4 air-to-air missile, the best air-to-air missile now in use.13 This missile uses an Elbit helmet sighting system." Source: http://www.heritage.org/Research/Asi...fic/BG1146.cfm The last one tracks with the numerous previous reports that Israel is indeed trying to sell not onlt the HMSS but also and advanced radar to the PLAAF for the J-10. Meanwhile Janes was reporting the following: "Israel blocks manufacture of Python 4 in USA" (12/06/00, Janes Defence Weekly). So, while quite willing to allow the PRC to manufacture Pythin, Israel is not so willing to allow its "close ally" the US that ability. Stranger and stranger... China don't have the python 4 he talked about. Maybe, maybe not. Others have not ruled that out as forcibly as you seem to. And as usual you also know you're wrong (its called lying). From a gabnder at the above, it would appear that you have once again jumped the gun... Chile and India use it. Gee, are you "lying" here? What about Singapore....? Brooks As long as the US insists on selling the Arabs surrounding Israel, and in still some cases technically at war with her sophisticated weapons systems, I don't understand the objection to ISrael selling China (a nation NOT at war with the US) some of its sophisticated weaponry as well!? If the US wants to negotiate a mutual agreement with Israel, where if the US ceases to sell Egypt then Israel will cease to sell China, it ought to do so. It should be reciprocal. Why should the US be allowed to sell Israel's sworn enemies modern deadly weaponry while Israel is called a traitor when it seeks to do the same to countries that don't even border on the US? Now if the US and MExico were in a technical state of war, and Israel was selling it weaponry, I could understand the objection. But China is practically on the other end of the earth with respect to the US. Why the double standard?
|
|
#9
July 8th 03, 01:57 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
(JGB) wrote in message . com...
(Kevin Brooks) wrote in message om... (Quant) wrote in message . com... (Kevin Brooks) wrote in message . com... (JGB) wrote in message . com... http://www.sci.fi/~fta/python4.html Wrong again. First you claim that Python is an AMRAAM (it isn't), then you say it has been placed into service by the USAF (it hasn't), and now you claim that the RAAF has opted for it (and it hasn't). Why are you so hung up on Python, and why can't you get *any* of the facts on it right? BTW, one country that *has* purchased Python from Israel is...the PRC. Brooks Wrong as usual. Nope, the PLAAF has had the Python 3 in service for years, and... "China and Israel continue to cooperate on the J-10 fighter program, and Israel is reported to be competing with Russia to provide China with a new, helmet-sighted, air-to-air missile. Israel may also be offering China its PYTHON-4 missile, which uses the same Elba helmet display as the American AIM-9X missile slated to enter U.S. inventories in the next decade." (Source: http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/china/...hinasess4.html ) And at least one site indicates the J-10 already has the Pythin 4 capability, see: home.iae.nl/users/wbergmns/info/j10.htm And then there is: "Israel also is reported to be trying to sell China its new Python 4 air-to-air missile, the best air-to-air missile now in use.13 This missile uses an Elbit helmet sighting system." Source: http://www.heritage.org/Research/Asi...fic/BG1146.cfm The last one tracks with the numerous previous reports that Israel is indeed trying to sell not onlt the HMSS but also and advanced radar to the PLAAF for the J-10. Meanwhile Janes was reporting the following: "Israel blocks manufacture of Python 4 in USA" (12/06/00, Janes Defence Weekly). So, while quite willing to allow the PRC to manufacture Pythin, Israel is not so willing to allow its "close ally" the US that ability. Stranger and stranger... China don't have the python 4 he talked about. Maybe, maybe not. Others have not ruled that out as forcibly as you seem to. And as usual you also know you're wrong (its called lying). From a gabnder at the above, it would appear that you have once again jumped the gun... Chile and India use it. Gee, are you "lying" here? What about Singapore....? Brooks As long as the US insists on selling the Arabs surrounding Israel, and in still some cases technically at war with her sophisticated weapons systems, I don't understand the objection to ISrael selling China (a nation NOT at war with the US) some of its sophisticated weaponry as well!? If the US wants to negotiate a mutual agreement with Israel, where if the US ceases to sell Egypt then Israel will cease to sell China, it ought to do so. It should be reciprocal. Why should the US be allowed to sell Israel's sworn enemies modern deadly weaponry while Israel is called a traitor when it seeks to do the same to countries that don't even border on the US? Now if the US and MExico were in a technical state of war, and Israel was selling it weaponry, I could understand the objection. But China is practically on the other end of the earth with respect to the US. Why the double standard? No double standard. The difference is we are providing some $14K per Israeli in various forms of aid each year. It kindo f sucks when you provide *that* level of aid and get in return not only espionage directed at your own, but advanced weapons sold to those who you won't sell to yourself because you realize they are indeed a serious potential regional threat (or maybe not so regional, seeing as how the PRC (actually one of its PLA spin-off companies) bribed their way into control of port operations on the Panama Canal). Brooks
|
|
#10
July 7th 03, 05:39 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Gee, are you "lying" here? What about Singapore....?
Singapore does not officially admit to have Python 4, but the telltale signs are there. Singapore's Vipers are equipped with the DASH-3 HMS, thus, make your own conclusion. Cheers
|
|
| Thread Tools | |
| Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads
|
||||
| Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
| how to force jeppview charts with flitestar? | rexwind | Instrument Flight Rules | 0 | January 19th 05 11:13 AM |
| USA - Air Force one | franck jeamourra | Instrument Flight Rules | 0 | June 11th 04 11:40 AM |
| 100 Air Force Overviews online !! | Frank Noort | Aerobatics | 0 | May 17th 04 06:47 PM |
| Who's At Fault in UAV/Part91 MAC? | Larry Dighera | Instrument Flight Rules | 24 | April 29th 04 03:08 PM |
| RV-7a baggage area | David Smith | Home Built | 32 | December 15th 03 04:08 AM |
Hybrid Mode
