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#11
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Starduster Too, first flight, busted prop
Al wrote:
"cavelamb" wrote in message nk.net... Al wrote: Pavement, KRBG, and about 10" I think. Al Ok, another WAG? Stardusters sometimes have rather long looking noses. If that was 10" in level attitude - obviously not a prob. If that's 10" clearance in 3 point? Maybe? It was a good 10" in a level attitude. Far enough to strike the prop would be scary indeed. LAST WAG? You found an old prop on the resturant wall? He, He, It WILL end up on a wall somewhere. Perhaps with a clock. The strange part to me is that he didn't notice a thing until shutdown. I finally got some pictures up, (alt.binaries.pictures.aviation). I tried earlier, but hit some kind of size limitation. Al Will go take a (morbidly curious) look. Most likely scenerio is that this prop is (well, WAS) too long for this engine. At operating speeds, the tip sheething let go (oh, say at about 4000 to 5000 G's?), and the prop "re-balanced" itself (rather quickly) sheding the dammaged wood. Those OLD props (say from an OX-5?) turned something like 1200 to 1500 RPM max. What do you think, Al? RIchard |
#12
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Starduster Too, first flight, busted prop
"cavelamb" wrote in message ink.net... Al wrote: "cavelamb" wrote in message nk.net... Al wrote: Pavement, KRBG, and about 10" I think. Al Ok, another WAG? Stardusters sometimes have rather long looking noses. If that was 10" in level attitude - obviously not a prob. If that's 10" clearance in 3 point? Maybe? It was a good 10" in a level attitude. Far enough to strike the prop would be scary indeed. LAST WAG? You found an old prop on the resturant wall? He, He, It WILL end up on a wall somewhere. Perhaps with a clock. The strange part to me is that he didn't notice a thing until shutdown. I finally got some pictures up, (alt.binaries.pictures.aviation). I tried earlier, but hit some kind of size limitation. Al Will go take a (morbidly curious) look. Most likely scenerio is that this prop is (well, WAS) too long for this engine. At operating speeds, the tip sheething let go (oh, say at about 4000 to 5000 G's?), and the prop "re-balanced" itself (rather quickly) sheding the dammaged wood. Those OLD props (say from an OX-5?) turned something like 1200 to 1500 RPM max. What do you think, Al? RIchard It has been suggested that what he really needed was a shorter prop, and now he has one. At operating speeds, the tip sheething let go This is the only scenario that fits all of the observations. I don't understand it, exactly, but there you have it. The radial Continental only turns 2500 or so doesn't it ? And wooden props are used on old radials all the time aren't they? So what went wrong? If we, for the moment, ignore witness reports, The other most likely scenario was voiced by Capt Thorpe, "That prop had to hit SOMETHING." My reply follows: That prop had to hit SOMETHING. You know, Capt., I couldn't agree more. The NTSB guy inside of me concludes that "The prop came into contact with a stationary surface, long enough to strike both blades". But I sure can't back it up with a single observation and the witnesses don't support it. We did a "FOD walk down" on the runway, and saw no splinters or strike marks. The taxi way signs apparently have no damage, again, no splinters. The pilot didn't observe anything. He was as shocked as we were upon shutdown. Of course it was his first flight in a plane he built. He may be excused for not being the perfect observer. He is, however, an ex marine, very quick wit, even somewhat humble; if he saw something he would tell us. There were witnesses(Pilots) out on the side of the runway during departure, and they all report no unusual noises or events. Even the landing was reported as normal. There has been a theory advanced that the prop tips(metal), departed in flight causing the damage. I think the length of the cracks and splinters on the remaining prop blades argues against this. Even a lightweight taxi sign shouldn't cause damage like this. I haven't given up. I think the odds of that kind of symmetrical and extensive damage occurring in flight are slim. I will feel better when I find a piece of prop, somewhere on the airport. Al -----Original Message----- From: Capt. Geoffry Thorpe ] Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2006 7:09 PM To: Al Gerharter Subject: Starduster Too, first flight, busted prop A buddy suggested that he might have hit a taxiway marker - I assume he has to S turn to taxi - could he have swung a little wide? That prop had to hit SOMETHING. Geoffrey Thorpe The Sea Hawk At WowWay D0t Com |
#13
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Starduster Too, first flight, busted prop
"Al" wrote in message ... "Cy Galley" wrote in message news:1Affg.756435$084.24840@attbi_s22... Any BLOOD? Might have hit a bird! I didn't see any blood, (see new photos alt.binaries.pictures.aviation) and it seems unlikely you'd trash both ends with one bird. Al, I have see something simmilar on an autogyro, a banson. Using a VW type engine with tow stromberg carbs. The plastic top and attached damper piston cam adrift and the prop struck it while running up to full power for a take off, the prop broke two out of three blades, they just shattered. When you look at the small size of the part that did the damage you could well understand the damage a stone could do or even a bird. -- .. .. Cheers, Model Flyer MS880B EI-BFR Al |
#14
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Starduster Too, first flight, busted prop
Al wrote:
"cavelamb" wrote in message ink.net... Al wrote: "cavelamb" wrote in message hlink.net... Al wrote: Pavement, KRBG, and about 10" I think. Al Ok, another WAG? Stardusters sometimes have rather long looking noses. If that was 10" in level attitude - obviously not a prob. If that's 10" clearance in 3 point? Maybe? It was a good 10" in a level attitude. Far enough to strike the prop would be scary indeed. LAST WAG? You found an old prop on the resturant wall? He, He, It WILL end up on a wall somewhere. Perhaps with a clock. The strange part to me is that he didn't notice a thing until shutdown. I finally got some pictures up, (alt.binaries.pictures.aviation). I tried earlier, but hit some kind of size limitation. Al Will go take a (morbidly curious) look. Most likely scenerio is that this prop is (well, WAS) too long for this engine. At operating speeds, the tip sheething let go (oh, say at about 4000 to 5000 G's?), and the prop "re-balanced" itself (rather quickly) sheding the dammaged wood. Those OLD props (say from an OX-5?) turned something like 1200 to 1500 RPM max. What do you think, Al? RIchard It has been suggested that what he really needed was a shorter prop, and now he has one. At operating speeds, the tip sheething let go This is the only scenario that fits all of the observations. I don't understand it, exactly, but there you have it. The radial Continental only turns 2500 or so doesn't it ? And wooden props are used on old radials all the time aren't they? So what went wrong? If we, for the moment, ignore witness reports, The other most likely scenario was voiced by Capt Thorpe, "That prop had to hit SOMETHING." My reply follows: That prop had to hit SOMETHING. You know, Capt., I couldn't agree more. The NTSB guy inside of me concludes that "The prop came into contact with a stationary surface, long enough to strike both blades". But I sure can't back it up with a single observation and the witnesses don't support it. We did a "FOD walk down" on the runway, and saw no splinters or strike marks. The taxi way signs apparently have no damage, again, no splinters. The pilot didn't observe anything. He was as shocked as we were upon shutdown. Of course it was his first flight in a plane he built. He may be excused for not being the perfect observer. He is, however, an ex marine, very quick wit, even somewhat humble; if he saw something he would tell us. There were witnesses(Pilots) out on the side of the runway during departure, and they all report no unusual noises or events. Even the landing was reported as normal. There has been a theory advanced that the prop tips(metal), departed in flight causing the damage. I think the length of the cracks and splinters on the remaining prop blades argues against this. Even a lightweight taxi sign shouldn't cause damage like this. I haven't given up. I think the odds of that kind of symmetrical and extensive damage occurring in flight are slim. I will feel better when I find a piece of prop, somewhere on the airport. Al FOD walk the run up area... |
#15
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Starduster Too, first flight, busted prop
"Modelflyer" wrote in message
... "Al" wrote in message ... "Cy Galley" wrote in message news:1Affg.756435$084.24840@attbi_s22... Any BLOOD? Might have hit a bird! I didn't see any blood, (see new photos alt.binaries.pictures.aviation) and it seems unlikely you'd trash both ends with one bird. Al, I have see something simmilar on an autogyro, a banson. Using a VW type engine with tow stromberg carbs. The plastic top and attached damper piston cam adrift and the prop struck it while running up to full power for a take off, the prop broke two out of three blades, they just shattered. When you look at the small size of the part that did the damage you could well understand the damage a stone could do or even a bird. -- . . Cheers, Model Flyer MS880B EI-BFR Thanks, I'll tell him about it. Al |
#16
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Starduster Too, first flight, busted prop
"cavelamb" wrote in message
k.net... snip FOD walk the run up area... Given the damage to the prop, I have to believe that it came apart after the landing since the pilot didn't notice anything at flight rpm... Any chance he could have sucked up a tie down rope? The prop ends could have made it over the next hanger row and be pretty darn hard to find... BTW - That's one nice looking airplane (I don't think anyone has mentioned that yet). -- Geoff The Sea Hawk at Wow Way d0t Com remove spaces and make the obvious substitutions to reply by mail When immigration is outlawed, only outlaws will immigrate. |
#17
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Starduster Too, first flight, busted prop
Modelflyer wrote:
"Al" wrote in message ... "Cy Galley" wrote in message news:1Affg.756435$084.24840@attbi_s22... Any BLOOD? Might have hit a bird! I didn't see any blood, (see new photos alt.binaries.pictures.aviation) and it seems unlikely you'd trash both ends with one bird. Al, I have see something simmilar on an autogyro, a banson. Using a VW type engine with tow stromberg carbs. The plastic top and attached damper piston cam adrift and the prop struck it while running up to full power for a take off, the prop broke two out of three blades, they just shattered. When you look at the small size of the part that did the damage you could well understand the damage a stone could do or even a bird. or even too tall grass... |
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