City controlled airspace?

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message
nk.net...


A certificate cannot be a license?

What difference does it make. As long it's accepted for pilot privledges, I
don't care what they call it.

Kind of like the difference between the Sheriff's Office, and the Sheriff's
Department.

Hmmmm. I only know one 'licensed pilot'. Everyone else I know is
certificated.

You could be a real pain and call the police every time a certificated pilot
operates an aircraft engine.

Only the FAA would come up with a term like "certificated"... and no offense intended,
but I don't see why people get so bent out of shape about "certificated" vs. "certified"
vs. "licencsed." Doesn't seem to make much of a difference to me.

On Apr 18, 3:32 pm, "Steven P. McNicoll"
wrote:
"ZikZak" wrote in message

oups.com...



Um, dude. I call it a certificate because that's what it's called on
the ticket and in the regs. Are the regs wrong then?

A certificate cannot be a license?

I don't know. I'm not a lawyer.

But I guess I am an LFI.

"Maxwell" wrote in message
...

What difference does it make.

You'd have to ask ZikZak.

"ZikZak" wrote in message
oups.com...

I don't know. I'm not a lawyer.


Then what's your point?

On Apr 18, 3:53 pm, "Steven P. McNicoll"
wrote:
"ZikZak" wrote in message

oups.com...



I don't know. I'm not a lawyer.

Then what's your point?

That under Dallas ordiance 5-24, the OP student pilot is okay to start
his engine.

C J Campbell wrote
The people who insist on "certificate" are harking back to the days
before the FAA issued them. Originally, airman certificates were
issued by flying clubs. There was no FAA in those days.

CJ, I have copied the following from a series of emails between myself
and one of the editors of the AVWEB newsletter......

I can understand the idiots at the local TV station constantly referring
to
"pilot's licenses", but how did supposedly "aviation savvy" writers for
AVWEB mistake a certificate for a license in the lead article pertaining
to medical certificate fraud?
------------------------------------------------------------------------
A little journalistic license, Bob, as approved by the FAA.
Check it out under the Airman Registry subhed in the link provided
below.
It now appears that license is the preferred term and (certificate) is
bracketed : ie less used... http://www.faa.gov/licenses_certificates/
------------------------------------------------------------------------
A quick call to the FAA confirms that there has been no change and that,
just like the newscasters, the webmaster has inserted his own slant on
the subject.
Since the page seems to be intended for the general public, the
webmaster probably felt that they would understand license better than
certificate.

However............from Wikipedia

A license (American English) or licence (Commonwealth English) is a
document or agreement giving permission to do something.

A certificate is an official document affirming some fact.
A certificate may also certify that a person has received specific
education or has passed a test.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
It is this little bit of freedom granted to citizens of the United
States of America that makes the difference between license and
certificate.

United State Code TITLE 49 - TRANSPORTATION
Sec. 40103. Sovereignty and use of airspace
(2) A citizen of the United States has a public right of transit
through the navigable airspace.

No further granting of permission (license) is required, however, a
demonstration
of training or ability (certification) may be required. Note the
ultralight Part 103 exception to the certificate requirement.

There is no such federal code granting a citizen the right to operate a
vehicle on public roads, or to practice medicine, therefore allowing the
government to require a license.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
My response from the FAA webmaster

Subject
Has the FAA really switched "pilot certificate" to "pilot license" as is
indi...

Discussion Thread
Response (FAA Expert) 07/22/2005 03:51 PM
It's a web error. Thank you for bringing this to our attention. We are
in the process
of restructuring our entire web site. I have initiated action to correct
this page to reflect "pilot certificate" and "mechanic certificates."
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Would you mind if I wrote about this for Monday, Bob?

Write away Russ....just bear in mind that I'll be checking each and
every word. :-) :-)

What started out as just a gentle chide to the AVWEB editor turned out
to taking-on the FAA, something that I've done many times in the past.
I've been in this flyingbusiness for 47 years and have learned that the
FAA probably makes more mistakes than I do. Getting them to admit it as
easily as happened Friday came as quite a shock to me. My first call
was to the local (Tampa) FSDO and what a waste that was.
A simple yes or no question and after a five minute dissertation, I
still did not have a firm answer.

My name since leaving Naval Aviation and joining PanAm in 1967 has been
"Bob (It's a certificate not a license) Moore". The basic indoctrination
course at PanAm taught us a lot about aviation law and history. At 72
years of age, I am still an active Flight Instructor. I instructed for
three years in the Navy, probably ten years in the airline industry and
six years in the GA business and one thing that I learned early-on from
my students was to very carefully weigh each and every word that I
uttered for accuracy. This is much more important for those who would
commit words to paper, or nowadays,to the internet. :-)

BTW, that little bit of Federal Code had its origins in the Air Commerce
Act of 1926. Just try discussing that with your friendly local FDSO
inspector! :-)
------------------------------------------------------------------------


Bob (IACNAL) Moore

"Steve Foley" wrote

Hmmmm. I only know one 'licensed pilot'. Everyone else I know is
certificated.

Even the FAA is using the terms certificated and licensed interchangeably,
in recent publications, so it is not a cut and dried "no-no" like it used to
be.
--
Jim in NC

When I taught at Expressway Airpark in Oklahoma City in the early '70s, I received a stern lecture from the local police regarding touch-and-goes at OKC Downtown Airport. I realized the runway was a challenge for students, but I didn't realize there was a city ordinance requiring full stop landings. Of course the jerk on Unicom never said a word - he was on the phone to the cops. Ya' live and ya' learn.

--
Jim Carter
Rogers, Arkansas

"Bob Martin" wrote in message
...
Hmmmm. I only know one 'licensed pilot'. Everyone else I know is
certificated.

You could be a real pain and call the police every time a certificated
pilot operates an aircraft engine.

Only the FAA would come up with a term like "certificated"... and no
offense intended, but I don't see why people get so bent out of shape
about "certificated" vs. "certified" vs. "licencsed." Doesn't seem to
make much of a difference to me.

It doesn't make any difference to me, under most circumstances. But when a
municipality oversteps it's bounds, as I feel they have done in this case, I
start looking at other ways they may abuse their power. All it would take is
one cop with an attitude to shut down the airport, because no 'licensed
pilots' were available to operate the engines. What happens when Skylune and
his Stop-The-Noise buddys decide to file a suit to prevent 'illegal'
operations at the airport?