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#71
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"Mike Rapoport" wrote in message link.net...
Ice is "known" to be present anytime there is visible moisture in the liquid state and the temp is below freezing. There will ALWAYS be icing under these conditions. Always, no exceptions. I"m not sure at what point you consider clouds to be liquid versus gas (vapor). I've often flown in the clouds at -5C without picking up any ice. I've also flown in the same looking clouds and did pick up ice. I still believe that there is a lot yet to learn about predicting ice. It seems like you are many times more likely to pick up ice in cumulous clouds than stratus (from practical experience). It also seems like stratus usually only make ice near the top. Richard Collins has often written on the continuing research the gov't is doing trying to better predict when ice will occur. -Robert |
#72
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"Mike Rapoport" wrote in message link.net...
"David Megginson" wrote in message . cable.rogers.com... Mike Rapoport wrote: There is no doubt that forecast icing is known icing to the FAA and the NTSB. This has been beat to death many times here and in every aviation publication. The problem is (as always) the edge cases: 1. If icing is forecast at 15,000 ft, is flight at 3,000 ft considered a flight into known icing? What about a flight at 14,000 ft? Ice is forecast in clouds and precipitation from the freezing level to some altitude. If you are below the freezing level then you are not in the area forecast for iciing. This is not an "edge case", the icing is forecast only at certain altitudes, the area outside of those altitudes has no forecast for icing. But often you can fly at that altitude in the clouds and get nothing. The research contiues.... |
#73
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"Robert M. Gary" wrote in message om... "Mike Rapoport" wrote in message link.net... "David Megginson" wrote in message . cable.rogers.com... Mike Rapoport wrote: There is no doubt that forecast icing is known icing to the FAA and the NTSB. This has been beat to death many times here and in every aviation publication. The problem is (as always) the edge cases: 1. If icing is forecast at 15,000 ft, is flight at 3,000 ft considered a flight into known icing? What about a flight at 14,000 ft? Ice is forecast in clouds and precipitation from the freezing level to some altitude. If you are below the freezing level then you are not in the area forecast for iciing. This is not an "edge case", the icing is forecast only at certain altitudes, the area outside of those altitudes has no forecast for icing. But often you can fly at that altitude in the clouds and get nothing. The research contiues.... True. I was merely defining the area (horizontal and vertical) which was considered to be known icing. Mike MU-2 |
#74
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C J Campbell wrote:
"Matthew S. Whiting" wrote in message ... | C J Campbell wrote: | "Matthew S. Whiting" wrote in message | ... | | | | | You might be legal, but you'd also be a test pilot. They might throw | | the book at you for impersonating a test pilot ... unless, that is, you | | ARE a test pilot. :-) | | | | What FAR spells out the requirements for certification of a test pilot? | | | | None that I'm aware of. Looks like you didn't catch the tongue-in-cheek | nature of my comment either. I thought the smiley would give it away | for sure. I guess some folks here are just too literal... | The response was in the same spirit as your post. But you forgot the smiley! :-) Matt |
#75
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Robert M. Gary wrote:
"Mike Rapoport" wrote in message link.net... Ice is "known" to be present anytime there is visible moisture in the liquid state and the temp is below freezing. There will ALWAYS be icing under these conditions. Always, no exceptions. I"m not sure at what point you consider clouds to be liquid versus gas (vapor). I've often flown in the clouds at -5C without picking up any ice. I've also flown in the same looking clouds and did pick up ice. I still believe that there is a lot yet to learn about predicting ice. It seems like you are many times more likely to pick up ice in cumulous clouds than stratus (from practical experience). It also seems like stratus usually only make ice near the top. Richard Collins has often written on the continuing research the gov't is doing trying to better predict when ice will occur. Yes, pretty hard to size water "droplets" when they are submillimeter to micron sizes. That's why I advocate allowing the pilot the latitude to take a look and make the call in real-time. Same as judging visibility on an ILS. It is what it is when you are there, not what someone on the ground things it is. Matt |
#76
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"Robert Moore" wrote in message . 6... "Tarver Engineering" wrote The only thing Part 23 is about is STCs. In fact, that is the title of Part 23. Title 14--Aeronautics and Space CHAPTER I--FEDERAL AVIATION ADMINISTRATION, DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION Part 23: Airworthiness standards: Normal, utility, acrobatic, and commuter category airplanes Yes, Bob, soon Part 21 will be re-written. Perhaps it will not be the same as when Part 145 can of worms was opened up and all the worms had babies. |
#77
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"Tom Fleischman" wrote in message rthlink.net... In article , Tarver Engineering wrote: "Bill Zaleski" wrote in message ... I just, within the hour, was introduced to the "Tarver cronicles". That is an extensive archive troll and you should find it to be identical to your own cluelessness, Bill. Why don't you two go get a room and be done with it. What do you think, Bill, do you want to suck my dick? |
#78
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"Matthew S. Whiting" wrote in message ...
Robert M. Gary wrote: "Mike Rapoport" wrote in message link.net... Yes, pretty hard to size water "droplets" when they are submillimeter to micron sizes. That's why I advocate allowing the pilot the latitude to take a look and make the call in real-time. Same as judging visibility on an ILS. It is what it is when you are there, not what someone on the ground things it is. I 100% agree with you. This modern FAA attitude of "you will burst into flames if a piece of ice gets on your plane" is probably not helping anyone other than to keep IFR pilots on the ground on days when ice can still be avoided. I'm not discounting the dangers of ice and I would never just hang out in it but I agree that pilot's should have more latitude. -Robert |
#79
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"Tarver Engineering" wrote in message ...
"Robert M. Gary" wrote in message om... And you used to be able to buy cigarretes without a warning label, it didn't make smoking safe. I'm just waiting for the day when a new Chevy will have a placard saying, "Warning, operation of this vehicle may cause death or bodily injury". |
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