Question from a new flight student (whopping 7 hours!)

On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 16:23:58 -0600, Newps
wrote:

almost always 1500' AGL. 99%+ of these aircraft are low wing.
So how are they supposed to see anybody?


99% of them are also alot faster than a typical single so the
opportunity to remain over a lower aircraft is significantly reduced,
and still allows for picking up traffic ahead of the larger aircraft.
They also fly a larger pattern, and where this condition exists
(generally speaking) have control towers on the field to aid in
separation. The 500' vertical separation also helps reduce the risk of
a mid-air.

z

So, if an altitude isn't listed in the AF/D should we now assume its
1000'?


Yes. But be careful about assUme.


And when it turns out to be 800, who is allowed to call the
FAA to have the entry modified?


Anybody. Tell them what you've observed, and have them contact the airport for
verification. It's even better if you talk to the airport head first and get
appropriate contact info for the FAA. It's just a "correction" to the AF/D,
like any other correction (lake in the wrong place on the sectional, tower
mismarked, stuff like that)

Jose


--
(for Email, make the obvious changes in my address)

I've got to say that I've honestly never seen anyone leave the pattern just
to re-enter on a 45.


I do sometimes, though I come over the airport 1000 feet above pattern
altitude. It's the standard "strange field approach", and it's also how you
see the wind sock or segmented circle. Granted AWOS and GPS makes a lot of
this obsolete, but radios don't make the plane fly.

Jose

--
(for Email, make the obvious changes in my address)

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:qI_bd.187839$wV.66243@attbi_s54...
One look out the window to see the crab angle and a peek at the GPS
grounspeed makes ATIS/ASOS/Windsocks superfluous.

How true. Sometimes you've got to wonder what people are looking for
before landing.

What I like are the guys who obviously aren't carrying a sectional chart
(or any other airport information) and insist on calling Unicom for an
"airport advisory" -- despite the airport having a published AWOS
frequency.


AWOS won't necessarily give you the active runway. Many preferred runways
have TAILWINDS, up to certain speeds. Sectionals won't help as they omit
this information.



When this occurs, everyone on the freq knows that the incoming guy:


"Everyone" seems to be uninformed.



a) Doesn't know the runways, and is hoping that the FBO will tell him the
preferred landing runway before he gets to the pattern.
b) Doesn't have a sectional, and therefore doesn't know the AWOS frequency
to check weather -- which would tell him the preferred runway in 30
seconds.


Is there some compelling reason the FBO wants to confuse the pilot? Only the
uninformed would assume that a pilot requesting an airport advisory doesn't
have a sectional. Advisories can and do include much pertanent information
like airport maintenance, bird and animal activity, parachute activity,
glider towing, runway braking condition, and preferred runway, even if it is
the downwind runway, ETC. AWOS gives none of that.


Our FBO manager loves to play with these guys,


No, your FBO manager is an ass.


telling them stuff like "winds are variable -- you have your choice of 6
runways..." or he'll simply give them the AWOS frequency, laconically
stating that "our AWOS will give you the complete weather every 30
seconds...


Again, AWOS will not necessarily give the active runway, which is often a
downwind runway. Nor will a sectional. Sometimes the AF/D provides this
information. Your FBO manager needs to be schooled.


When you listen to Unicom for 8 hours a day, every day, it's AMAZING the
stuff you hear.

Many here need a few years of flying 8-12 hours a day and some remedial
schooling.

--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Karl
"Curator" N185KG

Jay Honeck wrote:
You're kidding right? You would not believe what some people go thru to
go out and get back on that 45.


I've got to say that I've honestly never seen anyone leave the pattern just
to re-enter on a 45.

Let me be more clear. Rwy 9/27 is in use. You are approaching from the
NE, the dead side of the pattern if you will. In this situation I will
always enter at midfield, on the crosswind, unless traffic does not
permit. I can usually always get in on the midfield crosswind, worst
case I turn upwind and fall in behind someone else. This is very rare.
It is not uncommon for others to enter just like me except they will
then make a right turn(approax 45 degrees) and fly away from the pattern
on a southwesterly heading, into the face of other traffic entering on
the 45, fly out a couple miles and then do a 180 for the sole purpose of
entering the pattern on the 45. These people are nuts

Jay Honeck wrote:



1. Flight Service. In this age of pop-up TFRs, get a weather briefing
before each flight. While you're talking, ask about NOTAMs (Notices To
Airmen), because they'll tell you the little "surprise!" things (like a
runways that's closed for crack-sealing, that the airport manager forgot to
call in.). Don't forget to ask specifically about all TFRs.

Exactly, because these conversations are recorded so if they don't give
you the info on a TFR you are not responsible.



3. Your Sectional Chart will have most of the pertinent radio frequencies
for your flight. (Caution: Approach frequencies for center, and a lot of
the "oddball" frequencies for approach, are NOT on your sectional chart.)

For approach freq's do not use the sectional unless you have to. Use
the ATIS, it will always tell you what the approach freq will be. My
facility, like a lot of others, has more than one approach freq, nicely
written is this cute little pie chart. We never ever use more than one
approach freq. It is always 120.5. If we were to tell the FAA to
remove the other freq from the chart they would take that freq away from
us. We use it occasionally for emergencies, airshows or to BS with our
buddies. Couple times a day somebody calls in on the wrong one, very
clearly not paying attention to the ATIS.

Blanche wrote:

huh? I think I lost something in the thread....

According to the thread chain in my newsreader, you were replying to (although did
not quote it) Roger's post recommending Airnav, which is not an AOPA site.

George Patterson
If a man gets into a fight 3,000 miles away from home, he *had* to have
been looking for it.

"kage" wrote in message
...

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:qI_bd.187839$wV.66243@attbi_s54...
One look out the window to see the crab angle and a peek at the GPS
grounspeed makes ATIS/ASOS/Windsocks superfluous.

How true. Sometimes you've got to wonder what people are looking for
before landing.

What I like are the guys who obviously aren't carrying a sectional chart
(or any other airport information) and insist on calling Unicom for an
"airport advisory" -- despite the airport having a published AWOS
frequency.


AWOS won't necessarily give you the active runway.

Far as I know AWOS will never give an active runway. I do believe an active
runway at a non towered airport is any runway a pilot wishes to use. The
most useless radio call is "clear of the active" at a non towered airport.
Well, tied anyway with "traffic in the area please advise" and "airport
advisories."

My favorite annoyance is the call on the unicom asking for advisories when
1) the AWOS is working
2) there are 3-4 students in the pattern, all making "correct"
announcements (fortunately, most of them do not get chatty or
superfluous!)
3) everyone is on the RT on 8 (or 35) and the caller insists on
Left Traffic and ignores the fact they are now encroaching into
Class B Surface.

Just because you've been cleared into Class B does not mean you
get a free pass when every piece of paper states Right Traffic.

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:qI_bd.187839$wV.66243@attbi_s54...

Our FBO manager loves to play with these guys, telling them stuff like
"winds are variable -- you have your choice of 6 runways..." or he'll
simply
give them the AWOS frequency, laconically stating that "our AWOS will give
you the complete weather every 30 seconds...

Your FBO manager is a jerk, but he is correct. He should not be directing
traffic into the airport.