Some bad controllers

I'm not "beating on it" I was responding to someones post.

I agree that Jeff had an "experience". The issue is that he is blaming his
"experience" on someone else instead of taking responsibility for it and
learning from it.

Mike
MU-2

"PaulaJay1" wrote in message
...
In article . net, "Mike
Rapoport" writes:

OK, if ATC was unable to accommodate the request (to stay clear of the
cloud), would you come here ranting about their incompetence? Do you
think
the airline pilots would?


Get off it, Mike. Jeff had an "experience" and he shared it with us and
we've
had our comments - pro and con. Your continuing to beat on it will make
the
less calloused in the group not post. We will all (you included if you
have
anything to learn) be the worse for it. Personally, I've followed the
advice
or direction of someone else (both controllers and my wife) and later
found
that I wish I hadn't. I'd like this group to be free discussion with less
vitriol.

Chuck

Mike Rapoport wrote:



Anybody who files IFR from Las Vegas to Pheonix has to expect to go over
DRK.

Mike
MU-2

Not if they file to go south then come in from the west over Buckeye. In an
MU-2, you're right, who cares? But, in a Cessna 182, if I want to fly the extra
miles for my perception of safety, that should be my choice. Aircraft enter the
PHX terminal airspace from over Buckeye just as much as they do from over Drake.

PaulaJay1 wrote:
In article , "Matthew S. Whiting"
writes:


Is this true for all positions? I think our local controllers (sleepy
old ELM) sometimes work tower and ground at the same time and you don't
hear the ground communications on tower and vice versa.



My experience when this would happen is that tower says "stay with me" or "stay
this freq" instead of working me on a different freq.

Chuck

That happens often on the way back in, but they've always used .9 for
clearance delivery and taxi clearance outbound. Often when I arrived
late at night I would get the stay with me instruction. However, I
always call the ground frequency when heading out and have never been
instructed to switch to tower for either my IFR or taxi clearance.


Matt

Well, it depends what your definition of "high clouds" is. When a
monsoon hits Phoenix during the summer (6 or 7 nights a week, ALL of
summer) the ceiling usually gets down to between 700 feet and 1000
feet. I consider that fairly low, and it will most definitely cover
most mountains in the Phoenix area.

Doug

Jeff wrote in message ...
but its high clouds for the most part, you dont get the clouds covering the mountains like you had
this last week or so.

ost (Ditch) wrote in message ...
Is that always true? I know I hear this pattern sometimes, but I thought
it wasn't necessarily true.

Not i my experience. I have actually heard the controller's transmission stop
midway thru as he was talking to an airplane on another freq....switched to the
freq he was talking to the other airplane on and hear him finish his
transmission.

Yeah, seems like I've had a similar experience -- heard another
aircraft told "change to my frequency blah blah point blah", didn't
hear any other ATC transmissions to that plane, wanted to know 'cuz
I was heading for that airport, put that freq up on #2 comm and heard
'em.

Most of the time they will broadcast on all the freqs they are
working, but not always.

I wonder if it's some sort of hardware patch thing, where normally
they just route all the transmitters to one place and broadcast on
all the freqs they're working, but if there's a glitch of some kind
they wind up having to manually switch to work around it.

Not that any portion of our ATC system would ever experience any
kind of glitch that their tech. folks have to patch around or
anything like that....

Cheers,
Sydney

Jeff wrote in message ...
I dont know if its up to the controller or not on how they process IFR
requests, but this was not a pop up, he had my flight plan.

Jeff, not meaning to pick on you, but this is one of the points:

How do you know he had your flight plan?

If you filed an IFR flight plan originating in ABQ airspace, the
Phoenix TRACON wouldn't have your flight plan or a strip on you or
any other info about you, until the ATC facility where your flight
plan originated "departs" you. I didn't know this until we were
"bitten" in a somewhat similar way, departing in ZKC airspace and
trying to pick up a clearance from T75 (Stl Tracon) and I followed
up on it. Even though we departed from an airport quite close to
T75 they wouldn't get a thing on us until ZKC "departed" us, the
controller had to call ZKC. Depending on the airspace maybe
figure out who to call.

In hind site, I know now not to expect to be able to do this in the phoenix
area, and to get any clearance I need going into phoenix from ABQ.

Well, at the least, I would remain where you're comfortable while
you get the situation sorted out...or make sure you file an IFR plan
which originates somewhere inside PHX airspace so they'll definately
have your plan.

Just my $0.02,
Sydney

Jeff wrote in message ...
I was not dependent on them granting my every wish nor was I dependent on
anything except being able to land.
I guess my problem was decending in the first place when he said he was
looking for my clearance and told to do so assuming he would pull it up.

He damn sure pulled it up quick when I made my last call to him, he didnt even
need to ask my tail number again or any other information, so it appears to me
had had access to it the entire time and just did not want to mess with it.

It may "appear to you" but that's not necessarily correct. Apparently you
were receiving radar services of some sort (flight following) so he would
have your tail number for that, or he may have written it down to follow
up and look for your flight plan.

If he had to call ABQ and ask them to depart you as sounds likely, the
strip could have come through to him just before you called back. Also,
if he had reason to believe that you were in weather difficulty (which is
what your account of your last transmission sounds like to me), like
any good controller he is going to put a higher priority on tracking down
your flight plan pronto and if I understand correctly he also has more
leeway to give you a clearance now and track down the rest of the info
later.

Cheers,
Sydney

Yeah, and if you DIDN'T flile a flightplan, tell 'em you did, at a FSS
Far, Far Away.

(Snowbird) wrote in message . com...
Jeff wrote in message ...
I dont know if its up to the controller or not on how they process IFR
requests, but this was not a pop up, he had my flight plan.

Jeff, not meaning to pick on you, but this is one of the points:

How do you know he had your flight plan?

If you filed an IFR flight plan originating in ABQ airspace, the
Phoenix TRACON wouldn't have your flight plan or a strip on you or
any other info about you, until the ATC facility where your flight
plan originated "departs" you. I didn't know this until we were
"bitten" in a somewhat similar way, departing in ZKC airspace and
trying to pick up a clearance from T75 (Stl Tracon) and I followed
up on it. Even though we departed from an airport quite close to
T75 they wouldn't get a thing on us until ZKC "departed" us, the
controller had to call ZKC. Depending on the airspace maybe
figure out who to call.

In hind site, I know now not to expect to be able to do this in the phoenix
area, and to get any clearance I need going into phoenix from ABQ.

Well, at the least, I would remain where you're comfortable while
you get the situation sorted out...or make sure you file an IFR plan
which originates somewhere inside PHX airspace so they'll definately
have your plan.

Just my $0.02,
Sydney

"Doug" wrote in message
om...

Yeah, and if you DIDN'T flile a flightplan, tell 'em you did, at a FSS
Far, Far Away.


Why?

True, but if the MOAs are active then it will be a *really* long flight.
Eyeballing it on Flightmap, it looks about 90nm longer. Most of the traffic
over Buckeye is probably coming from Los Angeles not Las Vegas

Mike
MU-2
wrote in message ...


Mike Rapoport wrote:



Anybody who files IFR from Las Vegas to Pheonix has to expect to go over
DRK.

Mike
MU-2

Not if they file to go south then come in from the west over Buckeye. In
an
MU-2, you're right, who cares? But, in a Cessna 182, if I want to fly the
extra
miles for my perception of safety, that should be my choice. Aircraft
enter the
PHX terminal airspace from over Buckeye just as much as they do from over
Drake.