Q on 250nm IR training X/C flight

On 8/15/2005 11:21, Peter wrote:

FAR 61.65 details this

(A) A distance of at least 250nm along airways or ATC directed
routing;

I was told to measure the map distance between the airports, but
I'm not sure this is correct. I was also told no to count the distance
flown in, for example, a procedure turn, etc.

For example, I was told that if during the leg that was to be at
least 100NM, I had to divert to a different airport (due to weather)
and the alternate was not 100NM from the start of that leg, then I
do not meet the 100nm minimum.

I'm sure others will interpret this differently, and I would be
interested in seeing documentation to support that position.


(B) An instrument approach at each airport;

(C) Three different kinds of approaches with the use of navigation
systems.

What happens if one has done the following

(1) A 600nm airways flight with an IFR departure and an RV ILS, ATC
directed.

OK. One ILS approach...


(2) A return (600nm) flight, as above, followed by a circling approach
onto the opposite runway.

A 'circling approach' is not an IFR approach. The Instrument Approach
gets you to the airport area, where you can land straight-in, circle
to land, execute a missed approach, etc.

Also, I'm a little confused by 'opposite runway'. Is this the same
airport at which you executed the ILS approach? Because I think it
has to be three separate airports.


Unfortunately the above is just one type of instrument approach. Upon
return it was planned to do the other two kinds of instrument
approaches at a nearby airport but bad weather prevented flying there.

Is the above flying wasted for the 250nm flight requirement, or can
one come back a week or two later and complete the other two
approaches?

I guess that will be up to your D.E. I think the flight is intended
to be flown at one time, but others have argued that an overnight
stop is not unreasonable. However, if you delay a week, how can you
say this is one flight?

You definitely want to make sure you have your ducks in a row before
making this flight (as it's long and expensive). Keep in mind too that
you need to consider the weather, and diversion to alternate airports
and how that would affect your total trip mileage if that should happen.


My options for the other two are

NDB/DME
NDB only

Is that any good?

The way I interpret the regs, you need to fly to three different
airports (home, away #1, and away #2) and use a different IAP 'type'
at each airport. The distance between two airports (along one leg)
must be at least 100NM.

If you have VOR with glide slope, then you can fly an ILS at one
airport, a Localizer at another airport, and a VOR approach at
the third (assuming the approaches at the airports will support
this).

I'm not sure if "NDB" and "NDB/DME" would be considered different
approach types for the purposes of this flight, but I would think
they would be.



Also 61.65 does not say the flight has to be under the hood. It just
says "under IFR". Is that correct?

If you're in IMC, you don't need to wear the hood. If you're not
in IMC, you need to simulate it through the use of a view-limiting
device, like a hood.




--
Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Student
Sacramento, CA