Water Landings

In the July, 2008 edition of "Gliding International", edited by John
Roake, there's this word on water landings:

"Walter Schneider and Wolf Lemke of LS fame carried out water landing
test and ditched an LS1 prior to the World Championships in Finland.
They were worried about the lack of land out options and the
proliferation of lakes. They assumed that landing wheel up would be
the preferred option, but discovered that the glider 'bounced' off the
surface and dropped a wing as the fuselage entered the water because
of its shape. They tried it again with the wheel down, deliberately
put the tail down first and discovered that the wheel acted as a
gentle brake and controlled the whole process much better."


So, there has been at least one LS1 that has been tested for water
landings.

Questions:

1. Who do you find as a test pilot for these things?

2. What would you, the test pilot, say when Herr Schneider or Herr
Lemke says, "Go land in the lake." Maybe one of them did it and they
didn't have to ask a test pilot to do it?

3. Which version and serial number of the LS1 made this landing, I
mean, landings (plural)?

4. I have an LS1-c/d (Built as a 'c', changed to a 'd') and it was
flown by Helmut Reichmann in the 1970 World Gliding Championship. Was
it this glider they tested? Serial number 27.

5. My 'c' model does not have any type of box around the landing
gear. Seems like the fuselage could quickly fill and drag it to the
bottom. I wonder if they did their tests with the 'f' model, which
does have a sealed landing gear box?

Well, I know if I ever am faced with the challenge, the things to do,
not including panic radio calls...
1. Extend the landing gear.
2. Close the air vents.
3. Close spoilers.
4. Land tail first (as always).
5. Hopefully land towards the mainland and not an island, wind and
topography permitting.
6. Hope the insurance is paid up.



Ray Lovinggood
Carrboro, North Carolina, USA

Well, I know if I ever am faced with the challenge, the things to do,
not including panic radio calls...
1. Extend the landing gear.
2. Close the air vents.
3. Close spoilers.
4. Land tail first (as always).
5. Hopefully land towards the mainland and not an island, wind and
topography permitting.
6. Hope the insurance is paid up.

Ray Lovinggood
Carrboro, North Carolina, USA

I fly in the mountains a lot and never with water, and I have wondered
about blowing air into the water bags, not a lot but just enough to
make sure they have some air in them. Water wings.

On Jun 24, 7:38*pm, rlovinggood wrote:
In the July, 2008 edition of "Gliding International", edited by John
Roake, there's this word on water landings:

"Walter Schneider and Wolf Lemke of LS fame carried out water landing
test and ditched an LS1 prior to the World Championships in Finland.
They were worried about the lack of land out options and the
proliferation of lakes. *They assumed that landing wheel up would be
the preferred option, but discovered that the glider 'bounced' off the
surface and dropped a wing as the fuselage entered the water because
of its shape. *They tried it again with the wheel down, deliberately
put the tail down first and discovered that the wheel acted as a
gentle brake and controlled the whole process much better."

So, there has been at least one LS1 that has been tested for water
landings.

Questions:

1. *Who do you find as a test pilot for these things?

2. *What would you, the test pilot, say when Herr Schneider or Herr
Lemke says, "Go land in the lake." *Maybe one of them did it and they
didn't have to ask a test pilot to do it?

3. *Which version and serial number of the LS1 made this landing, I
mean, landings (plural)?

4. *I have an LS1-c/d *(Built as a 'c', changed to a 'd') and it was
flown by Helmut Reichmann in the 1970 World Gliding Championship. Was
it this glider they tested? *Serial number 27.

5. *My 'c' model does not have any type of box around the landing
gear. *Seems like the fuselage could quickly fill and drag it to the
bottom. *I wonder if they did their tests with the 'f' model, which
does have a sealed landing gear box?

Well, I know if I ever am faced with the challenge, the things to do,
not including panic radio calls...
1. *Extend the landing gear.
2. *Close the air vents.
3. *Close spoilers.
4. *Land tail first (as always).
5. *Hopefully land towards the mainland and not an island, wind and
topography permitting.
6. *Hope the insurance is paid up.

Ray Lovinggood
Carrboro, North Carolina, USA


You can't judge the landing well enough to land safely toward shore.
Parallel at distance you judge to be deep enough to not hit the
bottom- at least 8 ft.
Low energy with everything retracted except gear will reduce
likelihood of damage.
Vents will pop open due to pressure pulse when nose goes in.
Some handbooks suggest canopy unlatched(front hinged type) to help
egress if it goes on it's back.

Best to try to avoid, but MUCH better than trees.
Admiral Nixon

On Tue, 24 Jun 2008 16:38:35 -0700 (PDT), rlovinggood
wrote:

1. Extend the landing gear.
2. Close the air vents.
3. Close spoilers.
4. Land tail first (as always).
5.
6. Hope the insurance is paid up.

5. land parallel to the shore
7. turn off all electric power

Aldo Cernezzi

Best to try to avoid, but MUCH better than trees.
Admiral Nixon

Are you sure? The upper branches of trees seem to provide quite a soft
'landing'. Afraid to report my club has nested at least two gliders with
all occupants walking away (after being 'rescued' by the fire service).

jim

On Jun 25, 3:33*am, cernauta wrote:
On Tue, 24 Jun 2008 16:38:35 -0700 (PDT), rlovinggood

wrote:
1. *Extend the landing gear.
2. *Close the air vents.
3. *Close spoilers.
4. *Land tail first (as always).
5. *
6. *Hope the insurance is paid up.

5. land parallel to the shore
7. turn off all electric power

Aldo Cernezzi

I've made enough water landings to earn a single engine sea rating.
One thing that was not obvious to me before I started the training was
that landings on moving water should be made with the current not
against it if wind permits. The idea is to minimize the water speed
on touchdown so it's a trade between wind and current.

On Jun 25, 1:13*pm, Jim White wrote:
Best to try to avoid, but MUCH better than trees.
Admiral Nixon

Are you sure? The upper branches of trees seem to provide quite a soft
'landing'. Afraid to report my club has nested at least two gliders with
all occupants walking away (after being 'rescued' by the fire service).

jim

You must have special trees.
I know of many where glider fall all the way to the ground with
sometimes
hard impact and commonly lots of damage to the glider.
Yep- I'm sure.
UH

On Jun 25, 5:44*pm, wrote: On Jun 25, 1:13*pm,
Jim White wrote: Best to try to avoid, but
MUCH better than trees. Admiral Nixon Are you sure? The upper
branches of trees seem to provide quite a soft 'landing'. Afraid to
report my club has nested at least two gliders with all occupants
walking away (after being 'rescued' by the fire service). jim
You must have special trees. I know of many where glider fall all the
way to the ground with sometimes hard impact and commonly lots of
damage to the glider. Yep- I'm sure. UHLanding* flaps* or* no*
landing* flaps?Thanks.Douglas

wrote in message
...
On Jun 25, 5:44 pm, wrote: On Jun 25, 1:13 pm,
Jim White wrote: Best to try to avoid, but
MUCH better than trees. Admiral Nixon Are you sure? The upper
branches of trees seem to provide quite a soft 'landing'. Afraid to
report my club has nested at least two gliders with all occupants
walking away (after being 'rescued' by the fire service). jim
You must have special trees. I know of many where glider fall all the
way to the ground with sometimes hard impact and commonly lots of
damage to the glider. Yep- I'm sure. UHLanding flaps or no
landing flaps?Thanks.Douglas

Wasn't there a pilot who nearly drowned after landing in the treetops?
IIRC, the camopy jammed shut and the ballast water drained into the cockpit.
Sometimes you just can't win.

I would put undoing your parachute straps (not your cockpit harnesses) on
the list of things to do before you ditch.

Even with my 400m swimming badge, I'm not sure I'd fancy a swim with a
parachute still on my back.

Shaun


At 00:21 26 June 2008, Bill Daniels wrote:

wrote in message
...
On Jun 25, 5:44 pm, wrote: On Jun 25, 1:13 pm,
Jim White wrote: Best to try to avoid, but
MUCH better than trees. Admiral Nixon Are you sure? The upper
branches of trees seem to provide quite a soft 'landing'. Afraid to
report my club has nested at least two gliders with all occupants
walking away (after being 'rescued' by the fire service). jim
You must have special trees. I know of many where glider fall all the
way to the ground with sometimes hard impact and commonly lots of
damage to the glider. Yep- I'm sure. UHLanding flaps or no
landing flaps?Thanks.Douglas

Wasn't there a pilot who nearly drowned after landing in the treetops?
IIRC, the camopy jammed shut and the ballast water drained into the
cockpit.
Sometimes you just can't win.