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Rotax vs. Jabiru



 
 
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  #11  
Old January 5th 06, 07:22 PM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt
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Default Rotax vs. Jabiru

("ET" wrote)
S-LSA and kit E-LSA are regulated as to the min usefull load to combat
just this issue... but ambuilt expermimental is not.



Can a SP built, then fly an ambuilt experimental? I declare it to be
.......1,320 max gross?

I declare it to fly ...138 mph continuous max power, etc. I declare it to
have a stall speed of...


Montblack

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  #12  
Old January 5th 06, 08:53 PM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt
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Default Rotax vs. Jabiru

"Montblack" wrote in
:

("ET" wrote)
S-LSA and kit E-LSA are regulated as to the min usefull load to
combat just this issue... but ambuilt expermimental is not.



Can a SP built, then fly an ambuilt experimental? I declare it to be
......1,320 max gross?

I declare it to fly ...138 mph continuous max power, etc. I declare it
to have a stall speed of...


Montblack



Simple answer, yes....

You don't "declare" it, per-se, but durring your phase one testing you
establish these numbers and enter them in your POH for phase II flying.

If your off a little... probably no problem.. if your "off" alot..
probably no good will come of it.....

--
-- ET :-)

"A common mistake people make when trying to design something
completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete
fools."---- Douglas Adams
  #13  
Old January 5th 06, 11:50 PM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt
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Default Rotax vs. Jabiru


"News" wrote

For the best first hand info check the clasifieds in Australia and see the
story

The Rotax 912 has had about 10 years head start on the Jabiru to achieve
reliability. It had its share of gremlins in the beginning (ignition box,
stator assembly, rocker arms) but AFAIK nowadays they are quite reliable.
I'd recommend the gearbox slipper clutch option, as it removes the need for
a teardown after a propstrike.

I understand Jabiru has been working hard to fix the bugs they too had in
the earlier engines, but have no closer experience. I would also think
things get better as the experience grows how to install and operate the
engine. Might be a good idea to research how the newer engines perform.


  #14  
Old January 6th 06, 01:27 AM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt
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Default Rotax vs. Jabiru

Montblack wrote:

("UltraJohn" wrote)
I'm not sure if your talking about the 'built' version or E/AB version.
If it's the experimental version you can set the gross weight where you
like. Just limit it to the LSA requirement and your good to go. You will
lose some useful load which you can trade off with smaller tanks and less
range if you need the weight.



Could you ex"pound" on this - set the gross weight where you like?

Thanks


Mont ....blue, yeah, that's it - Montblue

Yes Montred (hey if you can do it I can) ;-)

You can set the gross weight for E/AB where you like. You might/should have
some documentation as to what the pane can actually maxout but you
certainly can set it lower for safety sake.
The speeds are another story. You can't easily 'set' the max continous etc
etc but you could put an electronic (or otherwise) limiter on the engine to
keep the speed within limits and/or adjust the prop pitch/diameter to limit
airplane (or prop/engine) speed. Now if you have a 250 kt plane it might be
difficult to limit it! My plane which I'm slowly (very slowly) working on
original specs are 180 mph cruise (yeah right) realistic most cruise at
140-150 so proping it down with a climb prop takes care of it easily the
problem is stall speed mines about 3 mph high so I need mods to lower the
stall down.
The whole point is E/AB has a lot of leeway!

Also the AMD CH601XL is SLSA (the one Jim Pellien is selling is ELSA)and it
has a Cont O-200 they lost 70lb useful load because of the engine weight
but it still has the 1320lb gross.

John

Sorry for the rambling post!
  #15  
Old January 6th 06, 04:28 AM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt
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Default Rotax vs. Jabiru


"UltraJohn" wrote

Also the AMD CH601XL is SLSA (the one Jim Pellien is selling is ELSA)and
it
has a Cont O-200 they lost 70lb useful load because of the engine weight
but it still has the 1320lb gross.


What is the useful load expected to finish out at?
--
Jim in NC


  #16  
Old January 6th 06, 06:19 AM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt
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Default Rotax vs. Jabiru

Nils Rostedt wrote:

snip

I understand Jabiru has been working hard to fix the bugs they too had in
the earlier engines, but have no closer experience. I would also think
things get better as the experience grows how to install and operate the
engine. Might be a good idea to research how the newer engines perform.


Have looked at this issue fairly closely (before ordering a J160).

Verbally - the maintenance/failure issues have essentially ceased in the
past couple of years. This is from school operators as well as private
owners.

Records - Comparing the incident/accident records in the last couple of
years show a much lower rate of engine problems compared to say 5 years
ago. This is with a lot more jabs around.

It seems with a/c engines as with everything else they can be tested
thoroughly in extreme ways and come up shining. Once they are put in the
hand of the great unwashed anything can and does happen.

--

regards

jc

LEGAL - I don't believe what I wrote and neither should you. Sobriety and/or
sanity of the author is not guaranteed

EMAIL - and are not valid email
addresses. news2x at perentie is valid for a while.
  #17  
Old January 6th 06, 07:24 AM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt
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Default Rotax vs. Jabiru

G'day

I live in Australia where that jabiru engines are manufactured, and I went
through the same dilemma regarding the choice of a 912 or a Jabiru engine
for my Murphy Rebel.

At our airfield there are maybe 30 Jabiru engines in service and there has
been a continual litany of broken valves, leaking head gaskets, faulty
ignition coils, rings sticking and bores glazing (etc), And that does not
include the tedious valve adjustments! To be fair, the factory seems to seem
to have got their new engines sorted, but I always feel that they are doing
field tests by using their customers as guinea pigs!

What swung me to the 100hp Rotax was that it is a well sorted engine with a
reliable history. There are a number of these in service here that have
3000+ hours on them. That was good enough for me. One downside to the Rotax
is the maze of hoses needed to connect the cooling system, but you can't
have everything.

I would strongly recommend that anyone who is contemplating using a Rotax is
to get the slipper clutch option. I recently fitted on to my engine and the
difference it made to the smoothness of the engine was truly amazing.


regards

Ian


The Rotax 912 has had about 10 years head start on the Jabiru to achieve
reliability. It had its share of gremlins in the beginning (ignition box,
stator assembly, rocker arms) but AFAIK nowadays they are quite reliable.
I'd recommend the gearbox slipper clutch option, as it removes the need
for a teardown after a propstrike.

I understand Jabiru has been working hard to fix the bugs they too had in
the earlier engines, but have no closer experience. I would also think
things get better as the experience grows how to install and operate the
engine. Might be a good idea to research how the newer engines perform.




  #18  
Old January 14th 06, 01:32 AM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt
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Default Rotax vs. Jabiru

Another data point for Rotax engines comes from the fact that the air
force uses them in some of the drones vehicles. Google UAV and Rotax.
Draw your own conclusion on whether USAF endorsement is good or bad.
tom

  #19  
Old January 14th 06, 03:45 AM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt
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Default Rotax vs. Jabiru

On 13 Jan 2006 16:32:35 -0800, " wrote:

Another data point for Rotax engines comes from the fact that the air
force uses them in some of the drones vehicles. Google UAV and Rotax.
Draw your own conclusion on whether USAF endorsement is good or bad.


Not necessarily a powerful endorsement. The engines have full-time,
professional maintenance technicians and are cheap enough that the government
could replace them after a few flights. There's a lot of difference between a
few dozen hours on an unmanned vehicle on a military maintenance schedule vs.
thousands of hours on a non-professionally-maintained aircraft with a pilot
aboard.

Ron Wanttaja

  #20  
Old January 14th 06, 04:24 AM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt
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Default Rotax vs. Jabiru


"Richard Riley" wrote

It had an engine that I thought - at first glance -
would make a terrific Ultralight engine. 4 stroke, about 50 lbs and
50 HP. Then I found out that it had a TBO of 55 hours.


If it ran at 35 or 40 HP, what would the TBO be? If it were 200 hours, it
still might be a good ultralight engine.
--
Jim in NC

 




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