The decline of gliding - a worldwide issue?

On Thursday, 11 March 2021 at 01:33:23 UTC-7, wrote:
I think that we have discovered a workable solution between us.

4. Publicly execute people who don't pay tax

You say that like it's a bad thing...

Seriously, though, those young folks who you do see promoting the sport are all coming from countries where gliding is heavily subsidized by....wait for it...taxpayer money.

The stunning videos of coastal soaring in South Africa - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_OOX...l=StefanLanger - were, I believe, taken by competitive pilots who were heavily subsidized to spend the NH winter in the south, keeping up their training, and who are to all intents and purposes professional pilots. I'd go so far as to say that if it wasn't for European, and especially German, government support, we'd all still be flying 1-36's.

On Tuesday, March 16, 2021 at 9:40:43 AM UTC+10, ProfJ wrote:
On Thursday, 11 March 2021 at 01:33:23 UTC-7, wrote:
I think that we have discovered a workable solution between us.

4. Publicly execute people who don't pay tax

You say that like it's a bad thing...

Seriously, though, those young folks who you do see promoting the sport are all coming from countries where gliding is heavily subsidized by....wait for it...taxpayer money.

The stunning videos of coastal soaring in South Africa - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_OOX...l=StefanLanger - were, I believe, taken by competitive pilots who were heavily subsidized to spend the NH winter in the south, keeping up their training, and who are to all intents and purposes professional pilots. I'd go so far as to say that if it wasn't for European, and especially German, government support, we'd all still be flying 1-36's.

I think you're imagining a level of support far in excess of what there really is. I don't think Stefan is funded by the EU or Germany, nor is he a Sports Soldier. I sent him this thread to comment for himself.
In Germany the "Sports Soldier" program picks 4(?) young glider pilots to glide as part of their military service. In France the national federation is well funded such that they can afford new team gliders and nice facilities, but not salaried pilots. Beyond that, I'm not aware of other European countries with funded teams/pilots beyond the occasional grants to clubs.
I suppose you could say the strong safety nets/social benefits in Europe counts as a subsidy?

On Monday, 15 March 2021 at 18:12:12 UTC-6, Matthew Scutter wrote:
On Tuesday, March 16, 2021 at 9:40:43 AM UTC+10, ProfJ wrote:
On Thursday, 11 March 2021 at 01:33:23 UTC-7, wrote:
I think that we have discovered a workable solution between us.

4. Publicly execute people who don't pay tax

You say that like it's a bad thing...

Seriously, though, those young folks who you do see promoting the sport are all coming from countries where gliding is heavily subsidized by....wait for it...taxpayer money.

The stunning videos of coastal soaring in South Africa - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_OOX...l=StefanLanger - were, I believe, taken by competitive pilots who were heavily subsidized to spend the NH winter in the south, keeping up their training, and who are to all intents and purposes professional pilots. I'd go so far as to say that if it wasn't for European, and especially German, government support, we'd all still be flying 1-36's.
I think you're imagining a level of support far in excess of what there really is. I don't think Stefan is funded by the EU or Germany, nor is he a Sports Soldier. I sent him this thread to comment for himself.
In Germany the "Sports Soldier" program picks 4(?) young glider pilots to glide as part of their military service. In France the national federation is well funded such that they can afford new team gliders and nice facilities, but not salaried pilots. Beyond that, I'm not aware of other European countries with funded teams/pilots beyond the occasional grants to clubs.
I suppose you could say the strong safety nets/social benefits in Europe counts as a subsidy?

Thanks for the correction, I thought Stefan was one of the Sports Soldiers. I do think that having four pilots subsidized to fly, pretty much full-time and in a different hemisphere when necessary, is not a trivial level of support. Also, I believe that eg. the gliders were also made available by the Sports Soldier program? I have experienced gliding clubs which were not state-supported, and those which are, and made a massive difference - particularly in provision of good gliders, etc. It might not look like a lot, but everything that removes friction and improves the pilot experience makes a difference in the long run.

I have experienced gliding clubs which were
not state-supported, and those which are, and made a massive difference -
particularly in provision of good gliders, etc. It might not look like a
lot, but everything that removes friction and improves the pilot experience
makes a difference in the long run.

There's an axiom: If you want more of any type of behavior, subsidize it. A
self-evident truth indeed...

Lotsa examples out there, and soaring in Germany, especially, is historical
poster child No. 1. Whether one perceives that as a good thing or a bad thing
or somewhere in-between, is another topic entirely!

If we accept the decline of soaring is due to expense in terms of cash and time along with too many other choices of how to spend discretionary time and money and people are choosing otherwise the real question is how do we make the product attractive? Many of the solution suggestions are very good. Many of them come from the perspective of experienced pilots and what is what we might want if starting out. Does the soaring community have any idea what a rank beginner wants? What does a person without any idea of what soaring is besides "It looks neat..." need to stay involved? I don't know I'm just asking.

On Tuesday, March 16, 2021 at 11:16:45 AM UTC, Kevin Brooker wrote:
If we accept the decline of soaring is due to expense in terms of cash and time along with too many other choices of how to spend discretionary time and money and people are choosing otherwise the real question is how do we make the product attractive? Many of the solution suggestions are very good. Many of them come from the perspective of experienced pilots and what is what we might want if starting out. Does the soaring community have any idea what a rank beginner wants? What does a person without any idea of what soaring is besides "It looks neat..." need to stay involved? I don't know I'm just asking.

Gliding is not in decline because it has become too expensive. It is in decline because it has failed to adapt to the needs and demands of society as it is today.

"I know what I'm going to do for fun this weekend....I'll spend my Saturday hanging around with 85 year olds, pushing heavy gliders about all day and hopefully I'll get a 20 min flight in return for my efforts".

"I know what I'm going to do for fun this weekend....I'll spend my Saturday hanging around with 85 year olds, pushing heavy gliders about all day and hopefully I'll get a 20 min flight in return for my efforts".

Well, that isn't exactly what happens. (85 year olds? Really?)

But it isn't "Well. I know what I'm going to do for fun Saturday. I'll have Mom drive me to the airport and sit around playing with my iPhone while a bunch of old geezers push heavy gliders around and go take a flight after they get it set up for me. That's if there isn't anything better on Tik-Tok or Snapchat. Or if Tiffany doesn't send me a shot of her panties on WhatsApp and I get bored. Or maybe I'll just blow it off and go fly a glider on my computer simulator instead."

Soaring's problem is soaring pilots are almost all Boomers and no one wants to be around Boomers.

Boomer
A slang term for Baby Boomer, often used in a derogatory manner.
I hate boomers, all they do is complain about young people and pretend
like it's not their fault the planet is dying!

I guess I'm a proud Boomer. Since I actually have done and still do
things not involving a small computer appendage.

Dan
5J

On 3/16/21 8:52 AM, Gregg Ballou wrote:
Soaring's problem is soaring pilots are almost all Boomers and no one wants to be around Boomers.

On Tuesday, March 16, 2021 at 7:52:59 AM UTC-7, Gregg Ballou wrote:

Soaring's problem is soaring pilots are almost all Boomers and no one wants to be around Boomers.

No, Gregg - others just don't want to be around you.

Tom