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#31
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Widower stabbed Air Traffic Controller?
"Stefan" wrote in message
... I know that the whole idea of the hierarchic structure involved was that the controller should trust that the established and approved workflow was reasonable. The person doing the job who must have the final say as to whether they feel they can do the job satisfactorily. In this situation, some of the equipment in the ATC facility was out of action. Not enough, by all accounts, necessarily to make it dangerous to work the facility, but some. It would be perfectly reasonable for someone who was comfortable working a fully staffed facility with normal levels of functioning equipment to say, in the event of staffing/equipment shortages: "Sorry, I just don't feel I can provide a safe service in this set of circumstances". The hierarchic structure is not there to allow the guy on the ground to trust that everything will be OK. In this case it's there to solve the problem of someone saying: "Sorry guys, I can't operate this as I don't think I can do so safely". D. |
#32
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Widower stabbed Air Traffic Controller?
"David Cartwright" wrote:
"Gord Beaman" wrote in message .. . Correction...I should have said "The Russian PIC wasn't well informed..." The Russian copilot wanted to comply with the RA I gathered but apparently the PIC over-rode him...that was my read anyway... From the programme I saw on Channel 5 about the incident (which was, perhaps surprisingly, well compiled and quite balanced) there was certainly a high level of disagreement between the PIC and his colleague over whether to obey TCAS or ATC. D. Yes, some of the particulars of an air incident certainly don't get well portrayed when the media or a film making endeavour is involved do they?...did you ever see he movie made of the Air Canada incident where a 767 ran out of fuel?...my lord that was the most sickening flying movie that I've ever seen in my life, (and I've seen a bunch). -- -Gord. (use gordon in email) |
#33
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Widower stabbed Air Traffic Controller?
"David Cartwright" wrote:
"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message link.net... If somebody is given a task which is impossible to accomplish, then who is to blame? The one who failed or the one who gave him the task? The controller was not given a task that was impossible to accomplish. Very few tasks are absolutely impossible to accomplish. Whether something is possible for a particular person with particular skills to accomplish in a particular situation is another thing entirely. The aviation industry goes to great pains to take note of the human factors involved in what goes on, and this entire incident is (very sadly) an excellent example of how a combination of (often unrelated) human factors issues can combine to cause loss of life. D. Luckily so..and caused by a lot of study, think tanks and training in this very very responsible occupation. I don't think that controllers are making enough money to compensate them properly for their responsibility. One get's a huge shot of respect for them when one's entering a very busy ATC section in zero zero conditions and listen to them handling many many flights very rapidly...you sure hang onto every word they speak and the 'tone of voice' it's given in. -- -Gord. (use gordon in email) |
#34
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Widower stabbed Air Traffic Controller?
"Gord Beaman" wrote in message ... I don't think that controllers are making enough money to compensate them properly for their responsibility. You're absolutely right. |
#35
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Widower stabbed Air Traffic Controller?
David Cartwright wrote:
The hierarchic structure is not there to allow the guy on the ground to trust that everything will be OK. In this case it's there to solve the problem of someone saying: "Sorry guys, I can't operate this as I don't think I can do so safely". You're absolutely correct. But then, there's such a thing which we call in German "corporate culture" (translated, I don't know if this is the correct term in English). You grow up and live in a certain corporate culture and it's very difficult if not impossible to resist. It's the responsibility of the managers to create a safe corporate culture. In this case, one man operations at two workstations at night were SOP. It's asking very much to second guess the SOP. Stefan |
#36
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Widower stabbed Air Traffic Controller?
"Stefan" wrote in message ... You're absolutely correct. But then, there's such a thing which we call in German "corporate culture" (translated, I don't know if this is the correct term in English). You grow up and live in a certain corporate culture and it's very difficult if not impossible to resist. It's the responsibility of the managers to create a safe corporate culture. In this case, one man operations at two workstations at night were SOP. It's asking very much to second guess the SOP. What's wrong with one-man operations during light traffic periods at what would normally be two work stations? In the US you can find half a dozen sectors combined and worked by one man during the night. |
#37
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Widower stabbed Air Traffic Controller?
On Sat, 29 Oct 2005 19:46:21 GMT, "Steven P. McNicoll"
wrote: "Stefan" wrote in message ... You're absolutely correct. But then, there's such a thing which we call in German "corporate culture" (translated, I don't know if this is the correct term in English). You grow up and live in a certain corporate culture and it's very difficult if not impossible to resist. It's the responsibility of the managers to create a safe corporate culture. In this case, one man operations at two workstations at night were SOP. It's asking very much to second guess the SOP. What's wrong with one-man operations during light traffic periods at what would normally be two work stations? In the US you can find half a dozen sectors combined and worked by one man during the night. Are they combined on the same scope, or does the controller have to physically roll the chair up and down the stations to see all the screens covering their sectors? If memory serves, in this incident the screens were separate, the controller was looking at another screen dealing with something there, and by the time he got back to this station the aircraft were already well within the lateral distance which would have caused the alerting system to activate, if it wasn't INOP. |
#38
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#39
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Widower stabbed Air Traffic Controller?
On Sat, 29 Oct 2005 15:22:04 GMT, Gord Beaman
wrote: /// I don't think that controllers are making enough money to compensate them properly for their responsibility. /// Let's see, what does a center controller make currently? A hundred grand? More? About as much as a (US) pharmaceutical dispenser I guess? A third as much as a physician? A fifth as much as an anesthesiologist? Brian Whatcott Altusa OK |
#40
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Widower stabbed Air Traffic Controller?
Brian Whatcott wrote:
I guess? A third as much as a physician? A fifth as much as an anesthesiologist? yet, a bad physician or anesthesiologist generally only kills one patient at a time... --Sylvain |
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