Real Life (in IMC) IFR training

On 11/12/06 08:21, Gary Drescher wrote:
"Mark Hansen" wrote in message
...
I have a friend that took me for a flight from the Bay Area in California
back to Sacramento (this was before I became a pilot) and upon taking off,
he flew right through a pretty heavy cloud layer. We were in the clouds
for
at least a minute before we broke back out. To this day he still says this
was ok - and he has several arguments why it was not unsafe.

I assume the flight wasn't IFR.

Yes, sorry. I guess it would have been clearer if I said it was VFR.


I simply won't fly with him any longer.

It's too bad that not flying with him isn't sufficient to protect ourselves
from his flying!

Well, it is my way of letting him know what I think about his conduct.
He's keenly aware, as I've pulled no punches with him on the subject,
and it's come up several times since then. He definitely exhibits some
of the 'dangerous attitudes' like machoism and anti-authority.

I think he's given up piloting for sailing now. I'm not sure if that's
much better though ;-\ Well ... better for pilots anyway.


--Gary





--
Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Airplane
Cal Aggie Flying Farmers
Sacramento, CA

A recommendation if you want real IMC time, even though it might not be
convenient...

Find a good CFII on the West coast, the LA area. Almost every morning
there is a nice marine layer and you can often fly many approaches down
to minimums. You also get the advantage of working the IFR system in
extremely dense airspace, with some of the most professional
controllers in the nation. Filing is simplified by the TEC (Tower
Enroute Clearance) arrangment, you can file from one tower controlled
airport to another, which greatly reduces wait times.

Try Van Nuys, Santa Barbara, Oxnard, Santa Monica, Oceanside, and you
can usually get an ILS into LAX or SAN, a real thrill if you haven't
done it before.

There is nothing to replace real IMC experience, be very careful about
poking into IMC alone with a fresh instrument rating... We know of an
associate pilot who with a one week old ticket filed IFR from Blythe,
CA to LAX, in a PA28, but since there was a two hour hold expected for
LAX, they gave him the LOC only approach into Hawthorne. 010OVC, and
2SM sounds like cake when you're studying chart minimums, but if you
never had to keep the plane upright at the same time, it is enough to
make you want to climb back out of that cloud layer to where you can
see a real horizon. Long (unsolicited) story short, that pilot (ahem!)
did break out where he should have and plopped her down on the numbers.
Shaking.



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but if you
never had to keep the plane upright at the same time, it is enough to
make you want to climb back out of that cloud layer to where you can
see a real horizon.

Then you weren't ready for the checkride.

Jose
--
"There are 3 secrets to the perfect landing. Unfortunately, nobody knows
what they are." - (mike).
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

Jose wrote in news:HP8bh.16805$9v5.4762
@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net:

but if you
never had to keep the plane upright at the same time, it is enough to
make you want to climb back out of that cloud layer to where you can
see a real horizon.

Then you weren't ready for the checkride.

Aren't you beeing a little hard on the person???

Sounded like he was "one week" fresh off the block and first time alone in
IMC.

Quite a bit different experience knowing he was the only one to bring
himself back to terra firma AND nobody to rescue him sitting in the right
seat....

And by the end description, sure sounded like he passed his first time solo
IMC experiences with flying colors.

Allen

Aren't you beeing a little hard on the person???

I'm being hard on the example. That is, the story is used to illustrate
the statement: "be very careful about poking into IMC alone with a fresh
instrument rating". While one should =always= be careful in IMC, the
thrust of this statement sounds like "don't do it; you're not ready for
it".

Add to that the statement: "010OVC, and 2SM sounds like cake when you're
studying chart minimums, but if you never had to keep the plane upright
at the same time, it is enough to make you want to climb back out of
that cloud layer..." and you should see what I mean.

I do agree with the antecedent: "There is nothing to replace real IMC
experience" and heartily agree that real IMC experience during training
is a Good Thing.

However, proper training should give one not only the ability, but also
the confidence, to come out of an otherwise ordinary 1000 foot ceiling
without shaking.

Jose
--
"There are 3 secrets to the perfect landing. Unfortunately, nobody knows
what they are." - (mike).
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

Jose wrote:
However, proper training should give one not only the ability, but also
the confidence, to come out of an otherwise ordinary 1000 foot ceiling
without shaking.


I'd have to agree. A 1000 foot ceiling ought to be a low anxiety event. I
don't start puckering until I start hearing about reported ceilings of 400 feet
or lower... only because they can easily go down to 150 feet and then things get
to be more of a PITA.

As for shaking... I save that for thunderstorms.




--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com

A Lieberma writes:

Aren't you beeing a little hard on the person???

Better to delay the checkride than to die while trying unsuccessfully
to fly on instruments alone.

Quite a bit different experience knowing he was the only one to bring
himself back to terra firma AND nobody to rescue him sitting in the right
seat....

Having someone in the right seat sounds rather like being in a sim.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.