Handpropping _ What are the FAR's or AC's

"Cub Driver" wrote in message
...

If you fly a Piper Cub, you will sooner or later (probably sooner)
find yourself in a position where you either prop the engine without
someone at the controls, or you take up residence in another
community. Not many airports will have someone available to help with
this project.

Tying down the tail sounds great, but have you ever walked from the
tail to the door with the motor running? It's miles and miles, and you
never felt so vulnerable!


That's a damn poor argument for not tying down the tail.

On Tue, 10 Aug 2004 22:13:18 GMT, "mike regish"
wrote:

Ever see the picture of the guy at about 1000' in a Cub, standing on the
wheel and handpropping the thing?

www.pipercubforum.com/handprop.htm

But note that he was following the minimum urged in this thread: he
had a qualified pilot at the controls.

Ordinarily, he did this down low at air shows. He was up high only
because the guy in the other plane had to make a descending pass to
get the photo.

More than one L-4 pilot has had to get out, stand on the landing gear,
and prop his plane while slung from a wire over the side of an LST.


all the best -- Dan Ford
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The Warbird's Forum www.warbirdforum.com
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"Cub Driver" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 10 Aug 2004 10:29:32 -0600, Newps wrote:

Incidentally, the original poster (I think) said that a pilot had to
be at the controls. I was instructed that a pilot or *mechanic* had to
be.

So J3's are two pilot airplanes? This comes up frequently and the real
answer is you don't legally need anybody to hand prop a plane.

As posted, the question is what happens to the pilot whose plane gets
away from him. Absent a qualified individual at the controls, he
likely will be found to have been careless, reckless, whatever it
takes to pull his certificate for a while.

Actually what happens is the airplane gets fixed and he is off to fly again.
Most such accidents don't get reported and if they do the FAA/NTSB could
care less.

all the best -- Dan Ford
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Bob Moore wrote in message . 8...
snip
I have instructed in some models of the PA-28 that had an impulse
coupler on only one of the magnetos with a starting procedure that
required the other magneto to remain off during start and turned on
only after the engine is running.

That is the case with most of the PA28s I've flown. Impulse coupler
on the left mag only. On a normal start, turning the key to the
"start" position grounds the right mag, while the starter turns the
engine and lets the left mag's coupler provide the spark. When hand
propping, you have to make sure that the key is in the "left" position
in order to get a timely spark. If you try starting it on "both",
chances are good that it'll not start and it will possibly kick back
(BTDT).

snip
Hand propping an O-300 Cont. powered 172 is much easier than the Lyc
O-320 powered 172. I do it frequently just to keep my hand in it...
(pun intended) :-)

That's where I got most of my hand propping experience. My old
O-300 powered 172 had a crummy 20 amp generator that wouldn't charge
until the engine was running better than 1200 rpm. When ever I flew
in to my class B home base at night, I had to have lights and radios
running and the taxi time was often 15 min. or more. This would
easily drain the puny battery, so I'd require a hand prop on the next
start.

My procedure was to tie down the tail, use large chocks, set the
parking brake and triple check the throttle setting before approaching
the prop. It worked pretty well for quite a few years without
incident.

John Galban=====N4BQ (PA28-180)

Cub Driver wrote in message . ..
On 10 Aug 2004 11:11:24 -0500, Todd Pattist
wrote:

If you fly a Piper Cub, you will sooner or later (probably sooner)
find yourself in a position where you either prop the engine without
someone at the controls, or you take up residence in another
community. Not many airports will have someone available to help with
this project.

Tying down the tail sounds great, but have you ever walked from the
tail to the door with the motor running? It's miles and miles, and you
never felt so vulnerable!

Its actually not too bad. The reason to tie the plane down good is
because you can never tell how fast the engine will run when you start
it. It depends greatly on the current conditions. You tie the tail so
the plane doesn't jump the chocks after you prop it. However, once you
have started the plane you set the throttle to a nice RPM and can
untie the tail and walk back up with your hand on the plane. A few
times the Cub or Aerona has wanted to move forward on me but it can't
go far with my hand on it. Its not pulling that hard because I've set
the throttle. The dangerous time is really just before you start the
engine and don't know how strong the engine is going to come on. Also,
in both the J-3 and the 11AC and 7AC you can easily pull the door side
chock as you hop in without having to let go of the strut.

-Robert

On 11 Aug 2004 13:32:51 -0700, (Robert M. Gary)
wrote:

The dangerous time is really just before you start the
engine and don't know how strong the engine is going to come on.

This is why I was taught to prop from behind if alone. You can
generally (J3 and 7AC at least) position yourself in such a way that a
power burst will sit you down on the strut. This gives an added
opportunity to retard the throttle when necessary. Of course without
an impulse this isn't realistic since you need to impart more energy
to the prop.

z

"Cub Driver" wrote in message ...

Tying down the tail sounds great, but have you ever walked from the
tail to the door with the motor running? It's miles and miles, and you
never felt so vulnerable!

You'd rather be in front of it?

Cub Driver wrote:



As posted, the question is what happens to the pilot whose plane gets
away from him.

Nothing happens. Had a guy west of here in Big Timber hand prop his
Bonanza a couple years ago. Got away from him, took off and flew a mile
or so before crashing and destroying itself. Nothing happens.

There are no Federal regulations in the US that prohibit it. Many states and
municipalities have ordinances that prohibit hand propping without a pilot
at the controls. King County in Washington has such an ordinance, for
example, and the cops have been known to write tickets to pilots hand
propping their planes at Boeing Field.

Having a pilot at the controls is no guarantee of safety. One time I
was demonstrating an old 150 (with a very marginal generator), and
the battery wouldn't crank the engine. I decided to prop it, and had
the prospective buyer sit at the controls. We went through the "Switch
Off and Pull it Through" routine, and at about the third blade - it
started! No harm done, but I sure was startled. He had incorrectly
set the switch to the right mag rather than Off position. In spite
of this and other problems like leaky brakes, he bought the plane!
(it was moving up in the world for him, considering the ratty old
ragwing he arrived in).

David Johnson

On 11 Aug 2004 08:28:20 -0500, Todd Pattist
wrote:

There's a
quick release knot that allows you to tie the tail, and
release it from inside the cockpit.

Tell me more!

I carry a line in my XC pack, along with chocks that I can reel in
from the cockpit. I'd like to know about this knot, for obvious
reasons.

all the best -- Dan Ford
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