KNS-80

Anyone currently flying with a KNS-80 please contact me directly. Thanx.

Bob Gardner

You really think anyone knows how to use that piece of junk?

I question the safety, even for the few pilots who might know how to use
it. The VOR system has deterioated quite a bit since the VOR Area Nav
studies were made in the 1970s. The box works on those old assumptions.

Bob Gardner wrote:

Anyone currently flying with a KNS-80 please contact me directly. Thanx.

Bob Gardner

wrote in message ...
You really think anyone knows how to use that piece of junk?

I question the safety, even for the few pilots who might know how to use
it. The VOR system has deterioated quite a bit since the VOR Area Nav
studies were made in the 1970s. The box works on those old assumptions.

A European perspective.

I started using the KNS80 in 1992 in our Mooney. The device made navigation
vastly easier than for those light aircraft that were stuck with only
conventional VOR receivers and DMEs, particularly operating off standard
routes -- particularly important in the UK where the airways tend only to
run between the bigger airports. I'm amazed that anyone would find it
difficult to use: it's an order of magnitude simpler than most IFR GPSs.
There are without doubt gotchas -- Garbage In Garbage Out with any piece of
avionics.

When GPS came along, first as handhelds for supplementary navigation, and
now in the form of all-singing-all-dancing IFR GPSs, the KNS80 got relegated
to a mostly secondary role as a backup NAV with DME. More recently in
Europe, FM immunity regulations have meant that most KNS80s are no longer
approved as NAV receivers (the filter package was about the price of a GPS,
so there was little uptake). Thus the KNS80 has become the heaviest,
bulkiest approved DME around. It's still there, though I haven't pressed
the Data button (to set up a waypoint) for a good while.

I don't see what "assumptions" are required for using a KNS80 over and above
that for a simple VOR/DME system. You still have VORs and DMEs, don't you?

Anyway, happy to help Bob if I can.

Julian Scarfe

Thanks, Julian...I received the help I needed.

Bob

"Julian Scarfe" wrote in message
news:7An2c.1635$re1.747@newsfe1-win...
wrote in message ...
You really think anyone knows how to use that piece of junk?

I question the safety, even for the few pilots who might know how to use
it. The VOR system has deterioated quite a bit since the VOR Area Nav
studies were made in the 1970s. The box works on those old assumptions.

A European perspective.

I started using the KNS80 in 1992 in our Mooney. The device made
navigation
vastly easier than for those light aircraft that were stuck with only
conventional VOR receivers and DMEs, particularly operating off standard
routes -- particularly important in the UK where the airways tend only to
run between the bigger airports. I'm amazed that anyone would find it
difficult to use: it's an order of magnitude simpler than most IFR GPSs.
There are without doubt gotchas -- Garbage In Garbage Out with any piece
of
avionics.

When GPS came along, first as handhelds for supplementary navigation, and
now in the form of all-singing-all-dancing IFR GPSs, the KNS80 got
relegated
to a mostly secondary role as a backup NAV with DME. More recently in
Europe, FM immunity regulations have meant that most KNS80s are no longer
approved as NAV receivers (the filter package was about the price of a
GPS,
so there was little uptake). Thus the KNS80 has become the heaviest,
bulkiest approved DME around. It's still there, though I haven't pressed
the Data button (to set up a waypoint) for a good while.

I don't see what "assumptions" are required for using a KNS80 over and
above
that for a simple VOR/DME system. You still have VORs and DMEs, don't
you?

Anyway, happy to help Bob if I can.

Julian Scarfe

I received a number of replies from pilots who are apparently very happy
with the "piece of junk."

Bob

wrote in message ...
You really think anyone knows how to use that piece of junk?

I question the safety, even for the few pilots who might know how to use
it. The VOR system has deterioated quite a bit since the VOR Area Nav
studies were made in the 1970s. The box works on those old assumptions.

Bob Gardner wrote:

Anyone currently flying with a KNS-80 please contact me directly. Thanx.

Bob Gardner

Bob Gardner wrote:

I received a number of replies from pilots who are apparently very happy
with the "piece of junk."

They are stuck somewhere in time and apparently have never tried a Garmin
400/500 series GPS.

wrote in message ...


Bob Gardner wrote:

I received a number of replies from pilots who are apparently very happy
with the "piece of junk."

They are stuck somewhere in time and apparently have never tried a Garmin
400/500 series GPS.

And those who fly 30, 40 and 50 year old aircraft must be stuck in a time
warp, huh? :~)

wrote in message ...

They are stuck somewhere in time and apparently have never tried a Garmin
400/500 series GPS.

Or perhaps they are diversifying their skills and keeping all options open.


--
Richard Kaplan, CFII

www.flyimc.com

Richard Kaplan wrote:


Or perhaps they are diversifying their skills and keeping all options open.



In that case, you should add L/F four-course range simulation to your ground
trainer. Who knows, they might come back?

Seriously, from what I see, most pilots are not spending enough time with GPS
to master its use for IFR. Between that, ILS, and conventional VOR/DME, the
plate is already full without trying to master computed radials.

wrote in message ...


In that case, you should add L/F four-course range simulation to your
ground
trainer. Who knows, they might come back?

As you correctly note, four-course ranges no longer exist, so there is no
purpose in learning or practicing their use.

Actually, I do not have a KNS-80 or other VOR/DME RNAV system in my
simulator; the KNS-80 is in my airplane. I agree with you there is no point
in a brand-new KNS-80 installation either in an airplane or in a simulator.
I am, however, debating in my mind whether to install a Garmin 430 vs. 530
later this year as part of an avionics upgrade, and I am leaning toward the
430 because it would save enough space to allow me to keep the KNS-80 and
thus maintain true DME and VOR/DME RNAV capability, two forms of navigation
which the Garmin 430/530 can only emulate based on GPS calculations.


Seriously, from what I see, most pilots are not spending enough time with
GPS
to master its use for IFR. Between that, ILS, and conventional VOR/DME,
the
plate is already full without trying to master computed radials.

I am not saying someone should install a KNS-80 today as part of an avionics
upgrade. But it does not necessarily make sense either to remove it just
because a GPS is going in. You are correct that many pilots have not
mastered all features of their GPS; what is wrong with an instrument pilot
attaining proficiency in all installed avionics, including both GPS and
viable/workable alternatives like the KNS-80?

--
Richard Kaplan, CFII

www.flyimc.com