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"Stinky Pete" wrote in message . net...
Well...it's been a romp for US jets pretty much always. Just look at the record of Russki jets in the first Gulf War, the Balkans, Libya and Israel vs. Syria in the Bekaa valley. This should give you some idea why jets like the Gripen, Eurofighter and Rafale can seem to sell for diddly. In the past 10 years, they've probably sold for export 20 aircraft between the three of them. Germany came real close to bailing out of the Eurofighter program. If it wasn't for India, Russia wouldn't sell anything either. Malaysia's Arms Purchases Raise Eyebrows by BARADAN KUPPUSAMY KUALA LUMPUR — When Russian President Vladimir Putin flew home on Aug 7 after a two-day visit to Malaysia, he left 900 million U.S. dollars richer and confident that Russia had finally pried opened a rich and yet untapped South-east Asian market for high-technology Russian weapons. Malaysia was happy too — to get a squadron of advanced Sukhoi MK30 fighter jets, paying 270 million dollars of the 900 million Sukhoi deal in palm oil — the country's leading export. Additionally, Russia will send a Malaysian into space and on the Experimental Space Station by 2005 — an important psychological booster for the government. The Sukhoi MK30s is the latest addition to Malaysia's shopping basket bristling with powerful and deadly weapons that money can buy — and all acquired since 2000. The shopping list includes F/A 18 F fighters from the United States, battle tanks from Poland, submarines from France, MIG 29s from Russia, long-range helicopters and Jernas missile defence system from Britain, heat-seeking missiles from Ukraine, multiple-launch rockets from several countries. Also coming up are early warning airborne systems worth 4 billion ringgit (1.05 bilion dollars). Officials estimate at 6 billion dollars the cost of these upcoming purchases, increasingly viewed as Malaysia's arms race vis-à-vis neighbouring Singapore, the region's most powerful country in military terms. "No, there is no an arms race. Malaysia is just upgrading and modernising its armed forces. It is a process that was delayed for a long time," said defence analyst Abdul Razak Baginda, executive director of the Centre for Strategic Studies. He said that Malaysian military hardware was dangerously becoming obsolete compared to the sophisticated purchases Singapore was steadily acquiring. "Now that the economy is up, the government is completing previously planned purchases," he told IPS, adding that the purchases were essential because of the changing regional security environment. He said Malaysia had battled an internal communist threat and was now looking outward and arming itself to defend its long shoreline and far-flung islands. But Malaysia's purchases are also coming against the backdrop of a changing security environment. Rather than becoming simplified in the post-Cold War era, this environment has become more complex what with the competition for resources, markets and emergence of new threats like terrorism and re-emergence of old threats like piracy. The end of the Suharto era in 1998 and the internal breakdown of Indonesian society, for instance, had been an ominous development for Malaysia, which shares the Straits of Malacca with Indonesia. "Although South-east Asian countries are all part of ASEAN (Association of South-east Asian Nations), except for East Timor, there are strong undercurrents of tension and suspicion," said a senior editor of the Asian Defence Journal, who declined to be named. "Such mistrust has increased with the economic slowdown and intense competition for resources, especially undersea wealth," he added. "Tension and mistrust among neighbours in a new and changing environment is a key reason for the military purchases," he said. "The regional buying spree is part of the process of modernising and upgrading of military capabilities to face regional threats." Among South-east Asian nations, Singapore, Malaysia and to a lesser extent Thailand are blamed for the arms build-up in the region. Lately Indonesia too acquired Sukhoi MK30s from Russia. "Singapore is the better armed nation in South-east Asia and had been consistent in acquisition even during the 1997 financial crisis," said Razak Baginda. "The Malaysian modernisation programme was stalled but has resumed now." "The acquisition gives the impression that Malaysia is on an arms buying spree but the truth is that these purchases were planned over many years," he said. He however agreed that other nations might see the arms purchases as "catching up" to a advanced Singapore. "We are all friends in South-east Asia...there are no enemies here," said Razak Baginda who is influential with the Malaysian defence ministry. South-east Asian countries face new security threats besides traditional worries like the environment, migration and health issues. But increasingly, seeing other countries as a potential threat is a major preoccupation. "The stable security environment of the region in future is not assured. Recent developments within and beyond the region will definitely pose challenges to national security," said Mohamad Apdal, Malaysia's deputy defence minister. "We need to get our military to make the transition from fighting communist to conventional warfare capability." "This does not mean we are going to war with any country...it is prudent to prepare an umbrella before it rains," he said. The change is reflected in the country's defence budget that jumped nearly threefold from 1.7 billion ringgit (44.7 4 million dollars) in 1981 to 4.8 billion ringgit (1.26 billion dollars) in 2001. Much of the perception of Malaysia as a threat comes from Singapore, which was part of Malaysia until the city-state left in acrimony in 1965. Since then, ties have had their ups and downs and both states fiercely compete for the same markets and foreign investments. Singapore has always been ahead of Malaysia with mobile firepower and high technological weapons system, until now. "Malaysia has narrowed the gap considerably," said Razak Baginda, who denied that there was an arms race between the two countries. But looking at the purchase and counter purchase, defence specialists see just that. For example, in 1996 Singapore bought four Swedish Sjoormen-class submarines, the first in the region. Now Malaysia and Indonesia have ordered their own submarines. In 1999 Singapore bought multi-role F-16C Fighting Falcons. Malaysia, Indonesia followed with MIG 29s, F/A 18s and now with the Sukhoi MK30s. In March 2000, Singapore bought six French-designed stealth frigates. Malaysia answered with various anti-ship missiles systems. To narrow the gap, Malaysia acquired multiple launch rockets. Singapore bought Apache helicopters and added more when Malaysia answered with starburst missiles and SAM surface-to-air batteries, which are effective against low-flying Apache helicopters. Singapore this year added additional Apaches with enhanced "fire forget" missiles and all-weather capabilities. These Singapore purchases have raised eyebrows within South-east Asia and appear to have unnerved Malaysia, Derek da Cunha, a senior researcher at the Singapore Institute of Southeast Asian Studies wrote in a 2002 paper on regional security. But Malaysia leaders were quick to assure Singapore that the weapons were purely for defensive purposes. "We are upgrading our military not because we want to aim at Singapore or any other country," said Defence Minister Najib Tun Razak on Aug 7. "We are protecting ourselves from internal and external threats." (Inter Press Service) ------------------ BM |
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"ville terminale" wrote in message om... i know US jet is much better. how many of best russian jets could one US jet take on at once? i'll bet the best US jet can shoot down at least 5 of russia's best jets before going down. It might depend on the pilot......I remember Chuck Yeager and another Air Force officer debated wether the F86 or Mig15 was a better plane. The settled it by taking turns in each plane and dogfighting each other......Yeager waxed him good both times....... Now in fairness technology is quite a bit different now....but I bet a Mig29 would be a good match for it's counterpart in the West. |
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Captain! wrote:
"ville terminale" wrote in message om... i know US jet is much better. how many of best russian jets could one US jet take on at once? i'll bet the best US jet can shoot down at least 5 of russia's best jets before going down. who do you think would win in a fight? putin or bush? What kind of a fight? Please describe the setting and the rules Cap'n. |
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#15
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D.K. wrote:
On Mon, 08 Mar 2004 07:30:26 GMT, "Captain!" wrote: "ville terminale" wrote in message .com... i know US jet is much better. how many of best russian jets could one US jet take on at once? i'll bet the best US jet can shoot down at least 5 of russia's best jets before going down. who do you think would win in a fight? putin or bush? Depends. If they are not given any advance warning, Bush wins. Bush, unlike Putin, has had some rudimentary training in flying planes. So, Putin dies before meeting Bush. If, however, they are given few days of warning ahead, Putin is a certain winner. Although he is dim-witted, he is still fully capable of learning - in sharp contrast to Bush, who is outright imbecile. DK In a hand to hand fight, Putin wins hands down. Isn't he some kind of an oriental martial arts adept? He's also younger, I think. |
#16
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"Rostyslaw J. Lewyckyj" wrote in message . .. YULKA wrote: Hello, ville! So how good a slingshot you have is totally irrelevant when you got grenades, for instance! With best regards, YULKA. E-mail: Shouldn't one of the "you"s above be an I? How about Ariel Sharon vs. Arafat Who's got the sling and who the grenade? I believe Arafat will outlast Sharon politically. |
#17
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Stinky Pete wrote:
Well...it's been a romp for US jets pretty much always. Just look at the record of Russki jets in the first Gulf War, the Balkans, Libya and Israel vs. Syria in the Bekaa valley. This should give you some idea why jets like the Gripen, Eurofighter and Rafale can seem to sell for diddly. In the past 10 years, they've probably sold for export 20 aircraft between the three of them. Germany came real close to bailing out of the Eurofighter program. If it wasn't for India, Russia wouldn't sell anything either. "ville terminale" wrote in message om... i know US jet is much better. how many of best russian jets could one US jet take on at once? i'll bet the best US jet can shoot down at least 5 of russia's best jets before going down. Looks like Stinky has seriously taken the bait 8-) Get ready for a replay of 'my jet is better than our jet ...' OR retrieve your Archives and join the party 8-) -- Rostyk |
#18
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Keith Willshaw wrote:
"Stinky Pete" wrote in message et... Well...it's been a romp for US jets pretty much always. Just look at the record of Russki jets in the first Gulf War, the Balkans, Libya and Israel vs. Syria in the Bekaa valley. This should give you some idea why jets like the Gripen, Eurofighter and Rafale can seem to sell for diddly.In the past 10 years, they've probably sold for export 20 aircraft between the three of them. Well now all 3 are relatively new aircraft and only the Rafale is likely to be offered to Syria, Iraq, Libya or Iran Saab have sold around 40 Gripen to SA and Hungary, and are negotiating with the Brazilians. I rather doubt that they would sell to Israel at all. As for Eurofighter the current no of orders is more than double that for F-22 at UK 250, Italy 130, Germany 130 and Spain 90 with export orders from Austria and interest from Singapore Germany came real close to bailing out of the Eurofighter program. If it wasn't for India, Russia wouldn't sell anything either. This is a silly thing to say when you consider the large number of nations operating Sukhoi and Mig aircraft. Keith Whee... It's just as I wrote in the follow-up to Stinky's post!! :-) Only Keith, ... Do you really think that Iraq is going to be in the market for military, fighter, jets in the near future? |
#19
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David Thornley wrote:
In article , ville terminale wrote: i know US jet is much better. how many of best russian jets could one US jet take on at once? i'll bet the best US jet can shoot down at least 5 of russia's best jets before going down. The quality of the pilot is much more important than the quality of the fighter. The nature of the engagement is also more important than the quality of the fighter. It may well make sense to say that one fighter is better than another, but quantifying it with expected loss ratios is pointless. -- David H. Thornley | If you want my opinion, ask. | If you don't, flee. http://www.thornley.net/~thornley/david/ | O- Oh, not if the whole point of the posting was a troll and gleeful attempt to ignite a flame fest. -- It's three weeks till April fools day. Rostyk |
#20
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The Black Monk quoted from:
Malaysia's Arms Purchases Raise Eyebrows by BARADAN KUPPUSAMY KUALA LUMPUR — ............................. Malaysia was happy too — to get a squadron of advanced Sukhoi MK30 fighter jets, paying 270 million dollars of the 900 million Sukhoi deal in palm oil — the country's leading export. It looks like russia is about to start up, or increase it soap production I wonder if it will be hard laundry soap, for its dirty laundry, or toilet soap, or soft soap ? -- Rostyk |
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