Which post-WW2 combat aircraft have not been used in combat?

In article , Vic Flintham
writes
In article , Peter Twydell
writes
In article , ANDREW ROBERT BREEN
writes
In article ,
Kirk Stant wrote:

Just one question:

What is a "Squark"?

Apologies - it was the Hawker Sea Hawk

http://www.thunder-and-lightnings.co.uk/seahawk/

A pretty little thing, and notably hardy and long-lived.


While we're on the FAA trail, AFAIK the Fairey Gannet never dropped
anything in anger.
Not strictly true. Gannets of 847 NAS were operational in Cyprus
between April 56 and November 59. They were on anti-smuggling (arms)
patrols and although as far as I know they never dropped anything in
anger they were there to do just that should the need arise.

You could used the same argument for Javelins in Malaysia. The point is
that they DIDN'T drop anything in anger, no matter how prepared they
were to do so.
--
Peter

Ying tong iddle-i po!

In article , John
Walker writes
Vic Flintham wrote in message
...
In article , Peter Twydell
writes
In article , ANDREW ROBERT BREEN
writes
In article ,
Kirk Stant wrote:

Just one question:

What is a "Squark"?

Apologies - it was the Hawker Sea Hawk

http://www.thunder-and-lightnings.co.uk/seahawk/

A pretty little thing, and notably hardy and long-lived.


While we're on the FAA trail, AFAIK the Fairey Gannet never dropped
anything in anger.
Not strictly true. Gannets of 847 NAS were operational in Cyprus
between April 56 and November 59. They were on anti-smuggling (arms)
patrols and although as far as I know they never dropped anything in
anger they were there to do just that should the need arise.
--
Vic Flintham
Cold war military aviation
http://www.vflintham.demon.co.uk

Did the Indonesians ever use theirs in action?

John



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I have no record, despite considerable research. Not sure if the
Gannets were operational through the period in question.
--
Vic Flintham
Cold war military aviation
http://www.vflintham.demon.co.uk

Mike Marron wrote:
(Kirk Stant) wrote:


Just for fun, off the top of your heads, which post-WW2 combat
aircraft (any country) have NOT been used in their intended roles in
an actual shooting war (or police action, or soccer riot, or whatever
it's called these days)?


And why?


Some ROE:


1. Combat aircraft means it was designed or modified to employ
air-to-air or air-to-ground/ship/boat weapons.


2. Combat means someone was activily shooting back (or really wanted
to) while the aircraft was performing it's mission.


3. Let's leave out recce, that just gets too complicated!
Could be wrong, but here goes:

B-36, B-47, F-84F, F-89, F-106, F-101, F-86D, F-94C, Saab Draken, Saab
29, F-4D Skyray, F7U Cutlass, F9F (swept-wing) Cougar, Gloster
Javelin, Avro Vulcan, Handley Page Victor, Supermarine Scimitar, Fiat
G.91, English Electric Lightning, Dassault Mirage IV, Saab Viggen,
Sukhoi Su-15, Shin Meiwa, Alpha Jet, Folland Gnat, BAe Hawk, Fuji
T1F2, Supermarine Swift, Tupolov Tu-22, Tupulov Tu-26, B-58 Hustler,
Tupolov Tu-16, North American B-45, Hawker Firebrand, Tupolov Tu-20,
Hawker Siddeley Buccaneer, Hawker Sea Vixen, deHavilland Venom,
McDonnell F2H-4 Banshee, North American FJ-4B Fury, deHavilland
Vampire, Yakolev Yak-25A, Dassault Ouragen, McDonnell FH-1
Phantom, Hawker Sea Fury, Grumman F7F Tigercat, McDonnell
F3H Demon, Supermarine Attacker...


Yep.

OK RAF V Bombers
Vulcan dropped bombs on the Airfield at Port Stanley (Falklands '82).
Valiant dropped bombs during the Suez Crisis in '56. Both involved
AA so both are out. Canberra also bombed during Suez.

The Victor was used as a Tanker in Falkland's and Gulf War I but I
don't think it ever actually dropped bombs on anyone.
Tanker Missions not Combat missions so....

Attacker - Korea.
Sea Fury Korea, Malaya Suez.
Gnat Indian/Pakistan wars. (Local Licensed version but...)
Vampire / Venom used in different colonial wars in late 40's and 50's.
Venom at least stood Cap during Suez.
Buccaneer Lased and Dropped during Desert Storm.



I will stick with Javelin and Sea Vixen as being in.

Swift / Scimitar. Not sure about.
Firebrand - was this operational ?
Lightning - I think the Saudi's still had some on strength during Desert
Storm but operational ? Not sure if these got a shot in during the
"tanker War's". UK Lightning's did not get a combat shot.

Ouragen Used by Isreal in Combat. Not sure if the French used them
during Suez.
Hawk - Trainer not a combat jet so should not be here.
Alpha Jet - Deployed by the French over Bosnia etc. Not sure if they
actually dropped ordinance or not.

Need a list of what was used in "The Malay crisis", (dh Hornet Avro
Lincoln scored there for a start) Korea, (Sea Fury, Meteor, Vampire &
others)Suez, (Valiant, Canberra, Sperrin (? V-Bomber predesesor anyway)
+ a good mix of post war French kit.

Congo ? Some weird stuff was used on both sides during those battles.
I think the Portuguese G.91's may have been used in anger somewhere but
recall is hazy.

"Steven Vincent" wrote in message
...
Mike Marron wrote:
(Kirk Stant) wrote:


Just for fun, off the top of your heads, which post-WW2 combat
aircraft (any country) have NOT been used in their intended roles in
an actual shooting war (or police action, or soccer riot, or whatever
it's called these days)?


And why?


Some ROE:


1. Combat aircraft means it was designed or modified to employ
air-to-air or air-to-ground/ship/boat weapons.


2. Combat means someone was activily shooting back (or really wanted
to) while the aircraft was performing it's mission.


3. Let's leave out recce, that just gets too complicated!
Could be wrong, but here goes:

B-36, B-47, F-84F, F-89, F-106, F-101, F-86D, F-94C, Saab Draken, Saab
29, F-4D Skyray, F7U Cutlass, F9F (swept-wing) Cougar, Gloster
Javelin, Avro Vulcan, Handley Page Victor, Supermarine Scimitar, Fiat
G.91, English Electric Lightning, Dassault Mirage IV, Saab Viggen,
Sukhoi Su-15, Shin Meiwa, Alpha Jet, Folland Gnat, BAe Hawk, Fuji
T1F2, Supermarine Swift, Tupolov Tu-22, Tupulov Tu-26, B-58 Hustler,
Tupolov Tu-16, North American B-45, Hawker Firebrand, Tupolov Tu-20,
Hawker Siddeley Buccaneer, Hawker Sea Vixen, deHavilland Venom,
McDonnell F2H-4 Banshee, North American FJ-4B Fury, deHavilland
Vampire, Yakolev Yak-25A, Dassault Ouragen, McDonnell FH-1
Phantom, Hawker Sea Fury, Grumman F7F Tigercat, McDonnell
F3H Demon, Supermarine Attacker...


Yep.

Actually, nope. Saab 29 did see some limited combat use under UN auspices in
the Congo. F-94C is a bit picky, as the A model did see combat in Korea. You
have noted the discrepancy vis a vis the V-Bombers. I believe the Libyans
used the Tu-22 over Chad, or tried to. The Tu-16 was used by Egypt against
Yemeni targets, and IIRC may have pulled a couple of ineffectual sorties
against Israeli targets (it would be interesting to know if the PLAAF used
any in their 1979 Vietnam incursion). The B-58 never flew a bombing mission,
but IIRC it did do some recon work (with a recon pod ILO weapons pod) during
the Cuban Missile Crisis. The B-45 flew many missions over Korea (and the
USSR) in its recon role.


OK RAF V Bombers
Vulcan dropped bombs on the Airfield at Port Stanley (Falklands '82).
Valiant dropped bombs during the Suez Crisis in '56. Both involved
AA so both are out. Canberra also bombed during Suez.

The Victor was used as a Tanker in Falkland's and Gulf War I but I
don't think it ever actually dropped bombs on anyone.
Tanker Missions not Combat missions so....

Attacker - Korea.
Sea Fury Korea, Malaya Suez.

Also Cuba, where Castro used them as late as the Bay of Pigs IIRC.

Gnat Indian/Pakistan wars. (Local Licensed version but...)
Vampire / Venom used in different colonial wars in late 40's and 50's.
Venom at least stood Cap during Suez.
Buccaneer Lased and Dropped during Desert Storm.

And IIRC did some strike missions under its South African guise.




I will stick with Javelin and Sea Vixen as being in.

If you mean "in" the list of non-combatants, yes.


Swift / Scimitar. Not sure about.
Firebrand - was this operational ?
Lightning - I think the Saudi's still had some on strength during Desert
Storm but operational ? Not sure if these got a shot in during the
"tanker War's". UK Lightning's did not get a combat shot.

I believe the Saudi models were all gone by ODS, but they *did* use them in
a ground attack role against Yemeni targets in the late sixties/early
seventies timeframe IIRC.


Ouragen Used by Isreal in Combat. Not sure if the French used them
during Suez.

ISTR they were also used in the Soccer War?

Hawk - Trainer not a combat jet so should not be here.

Wasn't there some concern over Indonesian use of the Hawk in combat
operations?

Alpha Jet - Deployed by the French over Bosnia etc. Not sure if they
actually dropped ordinance or not.

Need a list of what was used in "The Malay crisis", (dh Hornet Avro
Lincoln scored there for a start) Korea, (Sea Fury, Meteor, Vampire &
others)Suez, (Valiant, Canberra, Sperrin (? V-Bomber predesesor anyway)
+ a good mix of post war French kit.

Congo ? Some weird stuff was used on both sides during those battles.
I think the Portuguese G.91's may have been used in anger somewhere but
recall is hazy.

I think the G-91 may have seen some use by the Portugese in Angola.

Brooks

"Steven Vincent"
You forgot the Canadian CF-100 Cunuck!

H wrote:
"Jack G" kirjoitti
et...

Could add as well:

Martin AM-1 Mauler
Grumman AF-2S Guardian

Jack


"Kirk Stant" wrote in message
.com...

Just for fun, off the top of your heads, which post-WW2 combat
aircraft (any country) have NOT been used in their intended roles in
an actual shooting war (or police action, or soccer riot, or whatever
it's called these days)?

And why?

Some ROE:

1. Combat aircraft means it was designed or modified to employ
air-to-air or air-to-ground/ship/boat weapons.

2. Combat means someone was activily shooting back (or really wanted
to) while the aircraft was performing it's mission.

3. Let's leave out recce, that just gets too complicated!

To start things off, here are my USAF candidates:

B-36 - Held back from Korea for Nuke mission.
B-47 - Too early for Korea, too late for Vietnam (remember, no recce).
F-84F - Too early for Korea (ef considered a separate aircraft from
straight-wing F-84s), too late for Vietnam. Combat use by other
countries?
F-89 - Too late for Korea (?), not needed (no bomber threat).
F-106 - Not needed in Vietnam - F-102s deployed instead.
F-101 (Yeah, I know about the RF-101 in Cuba and Vietnam). Don't know
why F-101Cs weren't used early in Vietnam. Being phased out by then?

Everything else got lots of chances to do their thing.

At first glance, looks like the US taxpayer is getting a pretty good
deal for his money!

Kirk
(tired of all the non-mil av bull**** on this group)




Calquin (copy of Mosquito) from Argentina
Canadair CL-28 Argus
Breguet 1150 Atlantic

Bristol Brigand

Malaya Crisis, Yemen/ Oman before the RAF pulled back past Suez.

Lockheed P-3 Orion
Beriev Be-6
Beriev Be-10
Beriev Be-12
Tupolev Tu-12
Tupolev Tu-14


The sea patrol planes such as the Breguet and the P3 were not intended
to drop bombs anymore than most of the recce planes so I don't think
should be open for discussion here. (I don't know if Nimrod claims a
war drop during Falklands or ODS - it had a role in both but I don't
think it actually launched a Harpoon, Torp or Sidewinder).

"Steven Vincent" wrote in message
...
H wrote:
"Jack G" kirjoitti

snip

Lockheed P-3 Orion
Beriev Be-6
Beriev Be-10
Beriev Be-12
Tupolev Tu-12
Tupolev Tu-14


The sea patrol planes such as the Breguet and the P3 were not intended
to drop bombs anymore than most of the recce planes so I don't think
should be open for discussion here. (I don't know if Nimrod claims a
war drop during Falklands or ODS - it had a role in both but I don't
think it actually launched a Harpoon, Torp or Sidewinder).

P-3's have conducted wartime weapons delivery with the launch of SLAM's
during Allied Force.

www.vp4association.com/p3_orion/p-3.htm

Brooks