China to buy Eurofighters?

Chad Irby wrote:
John Mullen wrote:


phil hunt wrote:


Now, let's see if Chad Irby is going to keep his word...


Would be the first time...


John is obviously still upset that Iraq isn't a quagmire yet.

It isn't? But, hey, credit where it's due, well done for (sort of)
answering the question you were asked.

John

The 2002 EU GDP was about 8,623 billion dollars.
The 2002 US GDP was about 10,303 billion dollars.

Adding in the 841 billion dollars from the 2004 potential additions
(which might not happen), you get:

EU: 9,464 billion
US: 10,303 billion

What is the exchange rate of that 2002 figure?

Great. China wants to upgrade their technology the quick way. Sure, it
will result in them being one generation behind by the time they put
the Eurofighter technology into effect. Just who are they going to
fight? Who's going to fight them? If they attack Russia or India will
the EU act? Will NATO? If they move into SEA who acts then? China
needs oil - now what? Of course, with their giant current balance they
can afford to buy all they need - will they keep on buying it? Here's
something to really chill you out - is Taiwan going nuke? China keeps
telling them to shape up or they'll move on them - a nuke or three in
the Three Gorges lake would be one terrible threat. Think about it.
Walt BJ

In article ,
ess (phil hunt) wrote:

On Sun, 07 Dec 2003 18:58:48 GMT, Chad Irby wrote:
In article ,

Here you go...

The 2002 EU GDP was about 8,623 billion dollars.
The 2002 US GDP was about 10,303 billion dollars.

What's your source? Are these at market exchange rates or PPP?

It's from one of the European Union pages, but I found the same numbers
in several different spots.

It's not at current exchange rates, though, but we'd have to allow for
the European countries that aren't using the Euro versus the ones that
are, and account for differences in economies (some of the Euro-using
economies have tanked, and some of the non-Euro economies have not, and
vice versa).

I did a quick search of the economic predictors on the Web, and nobody
expect the dollar to stay weak for more than a few more weeks, since the
US economy is coming back so strong (and nobody in the EU is anywhere
near that).

The funny part about this is that you're desperate for the EU to be
"stronger" than the US economy, with what's going to be more than twice
as many people. This is even funnier when you see the signs of the EU
starting to fragment (the recent exclusion of France and Germany from
their national debt treaty is the biggest warning signal of this, with
more to come). The EU would have to change drastically for it to be
considered "one economy."

--
cirby at cfl.rr.com

Remember: Objects in rearview mirror may be hallucinations.
Slam on brakes accordingly.

On Sat, 6 Dec 2003 22:09:23 +0000, "Paul J. Adam" wrote:

In message , Alan Minyard
writes
Selling the most advanced aircraft that you are capable of building
to obviously hostile, repressive regimes is not the act of a "friend"

Al, you do realise that France is not part of the Eurofighter consortium
and so is only interested in selling Rafale? (Which story hasn't
appeared... yet).

Now me, I'd be more worried about how military technology seems to go to
Israel and then appear in Beijing shortly thereafter, but that's just
me.

I certainly agree with regards to Israel, we need to put a muzzle on that hound.
As for Rafale, it is a non-starter on the international market, but not due to any
qualms on the part of the French. It is simply a poor aircraft.

Al Minyard

On 7 Dec 2003 15:34:49 -0800, (WaltBJ) wrote:

Great. China wants to upgrade their technology the quick way. Sure, it
will result in them being one generation behind by the time they put
the Eurofighter technology into effect. Just who are they going to
fight? Who's going to fight them? If they attack Russia or India will
the EU act? Will NATO? If they move into SEA who acts then? China
needs oil - now what? Of course, with their giant current balance they
can afford to buy all they need - will they keep on buying it? Here's
something to really chill you out - is Taiwan going nuke? China keeps
telling them to shape up or they'll move on them - a nuke or three in
the Three Gorges lake would be one terrible threat. Think about it.
Walt BJ

Actually, the eurofighter is already at least two generations behind the
F-22/F-35. By the time the Chinese get one it will be 3-4 generations
behind.

Al Minyard

On Mon, 08 Dec 2003 15:38:28 GMT, Chad Irby wrote:

I did a quick search of the economic predictors on the Web, and nobody
expect the dollar to stay weak for more than a few more weeks,

Then

(a) they'd be buying dollars in expectation of this and the value of
the dollar would rise

(b) futures prices would relect this

The funny part about this is that you're desperate for the EU to be
"stronger" than the US economy, with what's going to be more than twice
as many people.

No. 450 million compared to 280 million. The EU might have twice the
USA when south-eastern Europe and Turkey join, but that would be
later.


--
"It's easier to find people online who openly support the KKK than
people who openly support the RIAA" -- comment on Wikipedia
(Email: , but first subtract 275 and reverse
the last two letters).

In article ,
ess (phil hunt) wrote:

On Mon, 08 Dec 2003 15:38:28 GMT, Chad Irby wrote:

I did a quick search of the economic predictors on the Web, and nobody
expect the dollar to stay weak for more than a few more weeks,

Then

(a) they'd be buying dollars in expectation of this and the value of
the dollar would rise

(b) futures prices would relect this

They're starting to. Small right now, but it's a trend people have
started to notice. Of course, you won't see big number changes until
it's too late (just like what heppened when the Euro went up a few
months back).

No. 450 million compared to 280 million. The EU might have twice the
USA when south-eastern Europe and Turkey join, but that would be
later.

Good point.

So... having an economy about the same size of the US, with 50% more
people, and a declining economy *and* declining population for the next
half-century. Still not too good for the future.

And that's assuming that the EU holds together, and that's looking less
and less probable as time goes by. Like Germany and France ignoring the
debt ceiling.

--
cirby at cfl.rr.com

Remember: Objects in rearview mirror may be hallucinations.
Slam on brakes accordingly.

On Tue, 09 Dec 2003 00:38:06 GMT, Chad Irby wrote:
In article ,
ess (phil hunt) wrote:

On Mon, 08 Dec 2003 15:38:28 GMT, Chad Irby wrote:

I did a quick search of the economic predictors on the Web, and nobody
expect the dollar to stay weak for more than a few more weeks,

Then

(a) they'd be buying dollars in expectation of this and the value of
the dollar would rise

(b) futures prices would relect this

They're starting to. Small right now, but it's a trend people have
started to notice.

URL?

Of course, you won't see big number changes until
it's too late (just like what heppened when the Euro went up a few
months back).

So how uch as you personally betting on the $ rising in value?

So... having an economy about the same size of the US, with 50% more
people, and a declining economy

Nope, growing. Economic growth in the EU has been slower that in the
USA for the last decade or so, true, but for most of the EU's
existance it's been higher. Furthermore, over long periods of time,
both tend to grow at the same rate regarding GDP/head. This is
because they both use the same technology, and tech advances are
the main cause of economic growth (we're richer now than we were 100
or 200 years ago, because it is easier (less labour and/or raw
materials) to make stuff now than then).

*and* declining population for the next
half-century.

These are just predictions. Note that:

1. Europe's population is currently increasing, albeit slowly

2. if need be, Europe could import any number of immigrants to make
up numbers (the UK alone has net immigration of a few hundred
thousand a year)

3. most workers in the economy, up to the 2040s, have already been
born today, and anyone born today won't be a productive part of the
workforce for another 20 years. Therefore any shortage of people
won't begin to bite for another 20-40 years.

4. European know birthrates are low, and have plenty of time to
think of ways to raise them (better child care? subsidies for
parents? etc)

5. the further we go into the future, the harder it gets to predict
anything at all. In 50 years time there's a good chance (my guess
is at least 50% probability) that old age will be curable, and
people will be effectively immortal (barring accidents). Then, old
people will be an economic asset, because they'll have the vigour of
youth combined vwith the experience of age.

And that's assuming that the EU holds together, and that's looking less
and less probable as time goes by.

No country has ever wanted to leave the EU, and many want to join.

Like Germany and France ignoring the
debt ceiling.

Probably a good thing to get rid of the Stability pact.

--
"It's easier to find people online who openly support the KKK than
people who openly support the RIAA" -- comment on Wikipedia
(Email: , but first subtract 275 and reverse
the last two letters).

On Mon, 08 Dec 2003 13:18:35 -0600, Alan Minyard
wrote:

On 7 Dec 2003 15:34:49 -0800, (WaltBJ) wrote:

Great. China wants to upgrade their technology the quick way. Sure, it
will result in them being one generation behind by the time they put
the Eurofighter technology into effect. Just who are they going to
fight? Who's going to fight them? If they attack Russia or India will
the EU act? Will NATO? If they move into SEA who acts then? China
needs oil - now what? Of course, with their giant current balance they
can afford to buy all they need - will they keep on buying it? Here's
something to really chill you out - is Taiwan going nuke? China keeps
telling them to shape up or they'll move on them - a nuke or three in
the Three Gorges lake would be one terrible threat. Think about it.
Walt BJ

Actually, the eurofighter is already at least two generations behind the
F-22/F-35. By the time the Chinese get one it will be 3-4 generations
behind.


Hmmm... Typhoon at least two generations behind the F-22 and
F-35???????, Ok I'll bite.

What aircraft are members of these two generations??... Go on I'm
interested... No... Really I mean it... I'd love to know...

Typhoon

..................?

..................?

F-35

F-22

Al Minyard

John Cook

Any spelling mistakes/grammatic errors are there purely to annoy. All
opinions are mine, not TAFE's however much they beg me for them.

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