Knee Jerks

B a r r y wrote:

With the exception of the cap (which is usually part of a good preflight
on GA aircraft), the rest are fuel system failures, not "running out of
gas".

AOPA's Safety Advisor categorizes fuel accidents as fuel exhaustion, fuel
starvation, and fuel contamination. Don't see a category specifically for
fuel system failu

http://www.aopa.org/asf/publications/sa16.pdf

The 2004 Nall Report has an all encompassing category called "Fuel
Management," where these accidents are then broken down into the three
types I listed above. Again, no specific category of fuel system failure.

http://www.aopa.org/asf/publications/04nall.pdf

Running out of fuel specifically because the pilot failed to fuel properly
is pilot error, but running out of fuel for any number of other mechanical
reasons may not be. If the latter were to happen over dark terrain at
dark, it might be reasonable to call this "bad luck," because it certainly
would be outside the pilot's control.

--
Peter

Peter R. wrote:


AOPA's Safety Advisor categorizes fuel accidents as fuel exhaustion, fuel
starvation, and fuel contamination. Don't see a category specifically for
fuel system failu

Excuse me. G

Barry

"B a r r y" wrote in message
. net...
With the exception of the cap (which is usually part of a good preflight
on GA aircraft), the rest are fuel system failures, not "running out of
gas".

Breaking his post down into the following items:

Fuel cell/bladder/tank leak in flight,
fuel cap improperly secured and is blown away in
flight resulting in siphoning of fuel,
ruptured fuel line,
clogged fuel filter,
fuel pump failure, etc., etc, etc.

I see five items, three of which *definitely* fall into the category of
"running out of gas" (in that they all can lead to fuel exhaustion in
addition to the possibility of fuel starvation), and a fourth (fuel pump
failure) easily could fall into that category as well (depending on the
nature of the failure...any failure where fuel leaks from the pump can
result in fuel exhaustion...that is, "running out of gas").

A "fuel system failure" is not mutually exclusive with "running out of gas",
and that was (I think) Peter's point in the first place.

It's certainly true that most engine failures are caused by "running out of
gas" and most instances of "running out of gas" are simply due to pilot
failure. But to say that that's true 100% of the time is simply wrong.

Pete

("Jay Honeck" wrote)
Actually, it will be reported that my last actions, as I struggled with
the flaming wreckage of my aircraft, will be to steer away from houses of
worship and child care centers, whilst helping my passengers bail out.


You fly a Piper.

You've got no choice but to help your passengers bail out ...IYKWIM. g


Montblack :-)
Now a Navion or an Ercoupe - slide canopy ...see ya later.

Congratulations Montblack! you are the 100th poster to this thread...
g

No, seriously you are bro!

The Monk

Peter Duniho wrote:

It's certainly true that most engine failures are caused by "running out of
gas" and most instances of "running out of gas" are simply due to pilot
failure. But to say that that's true 100% of the time is simply wrong.

And, therefore, running out of gas is not always a sign of a "bad pilot."

--
Peter

"Jose" wrote in message
om...
The quality of our action cannot be judged solely on the basis of the
result.

How else shall we be judged?

By our actions. Not by the results.

Not where I have ever worked. Results are what count, all else is pretty
much immaterial. Never heard of a salesman getting bonus based on actions.

If I fire random shots in the air and happen to kill somebody, who happens
to be your daughter, am I a Good Person or a Bad Person? If the person I
kill instead happens to be Osama, same question. If nobody gets hit but
we all enjoy the celebration, same question.

Seems to me you just described judgement based on results.

In my book, the answers would all be the same, independent of the result.

Jose
--
Money: what you need when you run out of brains.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

Peter
There are far too many pilots who make the knee jerk statement that
fuel exhaustion is the mark of a bad or poor pilot. As you point out,
fuel exhaustion is not always a failure of the pilot to put fuel in the
aircraft. I've had a couple of incidents when my engine quit with a
fuel problem. It was a fuel system problem.
Lots of happenings that the uninitiated will call poor piloting without
any of the facts surrounding the issue or incident. Those are the knee
jerkers I refer to and referred to in my original post on the subject.
Cheers
Selway Kid

How else shall we be judged?
By our actions. Not by the results.
Not where I have ever worked. Results are what count, all else is pretty
much immaterial. Never heard of a salesman getting bonus based on actions.

Salesmen get bonuses and such based on consistant results. They
generally don't get fired for botching one sale, especially when they
have made many other sales.

If I fire random shots in the air and happen to kill somebody, who happens
to be your daughter, am I a Good Person or a Bad Person? If the person I
kill instead happens to be Osama, same question. If nobody gets hit but
we all enjoy the celebration, same question.
Seems to me you just described judgement based on results.

No, I'm asking a series of questions. If the answers are different,
then the person answering is basing their answers on results. IF the
answers are the same, they are answering based on actions. My next
statement:

In my book, the answers would all be the same, independent of the result.

should make it clear where I stand

Jose
--
Money: what you need when you run out of brains.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

You fly a Piper.

You've got no choice but to help your passengers bail out ...IYKWIM. g

That's true -- and I've seen the, er, "better sides" of a LOT of
passengers whilst flying Piper products...

"Jes slather on the grease and PUSH, honey! I'ze be outta here in NO
time...!"

:-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"